I admit, I cheat. I frequently use the computer Josh Waitzkin (6) with a rating of 1600 from Chessmaster...sorry.
I think there is massive use of chess engines at all stages of the game on this site.
But I will follow the rule from now on.
I have to say that it is a very bad rule: you cannot prove BEYOND ANY DOUBT that someone used a program during the game.
That's why many players will never further follow the rule, and they will profit.
were is the PROFIT in geting a program to make your moves for you ??
you cant even say that you won the game cos the program did how sad can you get
All of the people that I told about chess.com first say "what about other players cheating with computer analysis" etc. I try to convince them otherwise.
I offcourse gave this problem a thought, and came to a conclusion that if my opponent is cheating, then I am playing actually against a "grandmaster" sort of hybrid, and if I loose against that, who can blame me? On the other hand if someone asks computer what he/she should move next, the whole idea of this site is lost. I suggest that if you are not able to find the "best" move by your self, dont play chess at all. Do someting else, like throwing a frisbee or something.
If you argue that "other people most certainly are using computer analysis too", pls look in to a mirror and meet a paranoid person. Hello there! I am certain of it, that most of the players here dont ask computers any advice, as the most important idea is that here at chess.com people get a chance to play with other people. I allready have a chessmaster in my computer, so I dont need chess.com to play against a machine. I need it because I like playing against fellow humans and my wife doesnt want to play with me! :) I make mistakes, sometimes terrible blunders, and so does my opponents too. And thats why the game is so great; even if I loose a peace, I could still win the game because I know that my opponent might make as serious mistake. Without mistakes, there is no idea in the game, not in any game we humans play: Mistakes are a requirement on a good and entertaining chess game!
After all, without loosing, winning doesnt exist.
I don't think anyone should take the games played on chess.com that seriously. I think it is a way to learn and improve their game. Anyone that uses a search engine only cheats themselves. The turn based chess allows a lot of time for each move. The games should be played at a high level. There is no money involved so lets just enjoy chess.
i agree with you valmenchetti
One has to respect the rules, as long as they exist as such on this site.
But, there is no cheating of yourself, when you use an engine during the game. Or are, in your opinion , the thousands of correspondence chess players, including the majority of world champions, cheaters ?
Dmytro, I fully agree with you.
And Gumptydumpty: Mandelshtam (which is me, I am back, with cleared rating, I will not use a computer anymore, may be I will not play at all, because so many others here use it!!!!) did not say himself that the raise of rating (from around 2100 to 2350 ) is due to Fritz 8. There are so many people here who have no rating higher than 1900 in USA, (meaning I would beat them 10 :0 in a face to face match, since i have Fide elo 2265) but their rating here is 2100 and higher. They make excellent, tactically justified moves, after short thought (less than one day) that a human FM hardly finds.
Ok, lets just finish this discussion.
it is legal because my first account doesnt exist anymore. i never harmed anyone, i just break the rules.
Good idea Mandelstham to create a new account. You even moved to Libanon because you wanted to play.
While computers can be wonderful helpers in improving people's chess playing abilities (databases to record games, ability to put written notes for you to remind you what you were thinking) as well as always being available to play against (the computer will never tell you I am not in the mood to play you), there is a certain percentage of people who for whatever reason (lack of skill, lack of confidence, the need to want to feel superior in some way) will use a chess engine to play out a game.
Personally I wonder why people do this. You are essentially a puppet for a machine. How much pride can you take in winning a game if you did not do anything other than being mindless and doing whatever the computer told you to play?
This is part of the reason that I started playing speed chess with game times of 5 minutes or less. I do not play well but I dont think anyone can reasonably use a computer in a 5 minute game and not make a mistake.
The only way to be sure if someone cheated would be to have a chess analysis program review the game and see what lines were played. If the lines were always within the first or second best lines the majority of the time, that is a strong indicator of cheating or at least someone playing at an extremely high level which is not common.
The cheater I talked about before played me at 3 0.
On Yahoo!, I believe I have played many cheaters at 3 0, and some even at 1 2. I think adept cheaters can bounce between a chess engine and their browser at a rate of about 3 seconds per move. So they will win if their chess engine grinds out a win within 60 moves.
On Yahoo!, I have also seen cheaters hook up a chess engine directly to the Yahoo! chess interface, and play 1 0 games so fast that after 20 moves they have used only 5 seconds on the clock.
therefore many players on internetchess sites play only 3min or 1min blitz games.
(I dont like them, because I am slow). The only secure way to meet a person, and not to deal partly with the metal monstrum, is to play a face to face game.
But once again, correspondence chess, with use of programs lifts chess to a very high level, because a strong player will be able to exploit and unify the strong sides of himself (abstraction), and the precision of a program.
I calim, that already myself (not a GM, but close to becoming a Fide master) can achieve a REAL rating 3000, even more, using Rybka, and having 30 days for 10 moves available. (That would be more than the rating of Rybka alone).
You would not win a 10 game match 10:0 against someone 365 pts lower than you. Maybe 7.5-2.5 or if you're lucky 8-2.
I think that chess.com should implement this feature and should no longer concern themselves about cheaters. They catch nobody after all.
Just to clarify: You think chess.com should implement a feature allowing a chess engine to hook up directly to the chess.com chess interface, and you think that chess.com should not concern themselves about cheaters because chess.com catches nobody at all, right?
I can understand the sarcasm but you'll find quite a few accounts that have been banned for cheating where it was obvious engine use, in addition there were many accounts that suddenly closed themselves having risen to high in the ratings list. So a bit unfair to say they catch nobody. Perhaps they should have a board of shame instead of keeping it low profile. On the other hand that might add to the hysteria.
Yes David! You know, I saw the match between Kramnik and Anand and the advantage was always fluctuating. Here, there are people who play perfectly, so well that Anand would have no chance against them!! You can see how their advantage is ALWAYS increasing. I reported them to chess.com and nothing happened. So, if an agreement percentage of 80% of the UNFORCED moves is not cheating, then nothing is cheating. The second thing I am surprised is the level of the players here compared to ICC. A player at 1400 would be about 1800 on ICC. How come all the smart guys come to chess.com and all the patzers go to ICC?
maybe we should lock this
i am concerned about a specific player on chess.com which i highly suspect of cheating. i have twice suggested to the chess.com staff that this person is most likely cheating but i believe that chess.com has cleared them of any wrong doing (or simply never checked - since they have given me no information about their check i don't think it's crazy to assume that there was no check taking place - i guess i'm just pessimistic).
first of all, this person does not win every game. this person is "smart" enough to accept a decent amount of draws (many while leading in material, and many with a large amount of game still to be played (ex. after about 10 total moves and only one pawn captured by each side)). that being said, this person's record is quite amazing (last time i counted it was 79 straight undefeated games out of just over 100 total played). this person had only lost 32 games total and all were on time (except one i believe near the beginning of him/her joining the site).
yes, this person may be some grandmaster in the making who just never loses a game that he/she finishes. but the very strange draws are making me really question this person's abilities. why offer/accept a draw while leading in material? why offer/accept a draw when he/she is even in material and plenty of game left to play? other than trying to keep one's cheating rating from ballooning to crazy amounts, i don't see a reason.
i'm asking for other people's opinions for two reasons: 1) chess.com has failed to adequately address the issues imho, and 2) perhaps i'm missing something that could adequately address the issue. so please someone help me out. i don't want to think that there are a lot of cheaters on this site and there's just nothing that happens to them. it will greatly influence my wanting to play on this site.
sorry, what do you mean by cheating ? I do not suppose that the use of chess programs is forbidden!!!
We play correspondence chess, and everyone knows that almost everybody in that 'sport', 'asks' programs, at least from time to time.
So what else could cheating mean ?
I have never used a chess program for help, not even for opening's
Here, there are people who play perfectly, ... You can see how their advantage is ALWAYS increasing. I reported them to chess.com and nothing happened.
I think you are mistaken. I suspect chess.com investigated, concluded they did not have enough proof of cheating, and did not tell you what they did or concluded.
So, if an agreement percentage of 80% of the UNFORCED moves is not cheating, then nothing is cheating.
You won't find such agreement. The chess.com staff and others (such as I) may conclude that an agreement percentage of 80% of the unforced moves for just a game or two is insufficient proof of cheating, but that is altogether different than proof of not cheating.
The second thing I am surprised is the level of the players here compared to ICC. A player at 1400 would be about 1800 on ICC. How come all the smart guys come to chess.com and all the patzers go to ICC?
Could you please point me to the data for your conclusion?