Chess 960

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2nd July 2009, 08:46pm
#21
by Narz
Pitman, New Jersey United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 2812
Rael wrote:

He sounds like a typical beaurocrat to me. Just the kind of jerk you have sitting on some community council figuring out how to make things PC for everyone. An utter TOAD of a human. No adreniline, no thrust, no genius. Just a crusty croany trying to get his poor, muted "spongy" brain to fire some braincells - an utter fail of a human being.


Man, that's harsh! Surprised

3rd July 2009, 11:46am
#22
by erik
Mountain View, CA United States
Member Since: May 2007
Member Points: 10121

here is why we chose 960 (many reasons):

- it's shorter and easier to say/spell (is it Fischer-Random, FischerRandom, Fischer Random, Fischer Random Chess)

- Fischer didn't really invent the concept - it was shuffle chess before that

- Fischer is a legendary character, but in my mind did enough damage to himself and others and I feel he forfeits it. Just like Barry Bonds should have his records removed from baseball.

Sorry to disagree Rael! You are a passionate fellow. I'm more practical and perhaps less forgiving :(

3rd July 2009, 01:58pm
#23
by LordJones3rd
Bristol Wales
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 623

i am happy now i like 960

3rd July 2009, 03:13pm
#24
by paul211
Canada
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 1850

Who cares who invented the 960 variation called the shuffle chess originally, every single game has it's own origin and was modified through the course of time to make it more attractive to play.

Bobby Fisher modified the castling rule in the shuffle chess game and came up with a new variation, which is what people are playing today.

For any American chess player not to recognize this, is simply appalling to me as a Canadian, not only be proud of your troops but also of the other great USA contributors in any field, I am really shocked here when people brush Bobby Fisher aside to say well  he did not invent the game??!! Double chess annotation by the way! one of the very best chess player of all time and an American that they ever produced in the last.... years to win a world championship title against the well oiled and regimented and super trained Russian deus ex machina!

It is simply called Fisher Random Chess, what is so difficult about this terminology, too many words?, can every one look at their baptism certificate if you have one and tell me honestly that it is shorter in letters?

Is not right to give credit to Bobby for his contribution and give the game the name that it deserves?

Recognize all people for their contribution and not their faults, do not forgive but be compassionate as you have not walked the road in their shoes.

To be cocky and opinioned at a younger age is normal, as life delivers it's share of challenges an testing experiences such as serious illness, one becomes more mature and more weighted and balanced in her/his views.

In the last month what have you, anyone, found out the one best thing you have done for your partner, wife, husband, girlfriend?

And conversely what have you analyzed and found to be the worst thing that you did in the last month?

I am talking here about doing an introspect analysis of about 5 minutes once a month to improve your and my life.

What you did best repeat, not necessarily going to the restaurant, and perhaps the best idea, but going out of the house.

Conversely what did you do worst?

Try not to do it again! That simple.

Sorry to disagree, a priory you may think that your position is the right one, with years of experience and an posteriori review your view will change, I trust and know. 

Just give Bobby Fisher the only legacy he left, and that is to name the 960 game in his honor and do call it the Fisher random chess, forget about all of your allusion to the complexity of naming the game, you are the one that cannot find the true answer, just keep it simple.

Otherwise you are not a proud American for his contribution to the chess game  you only try to find faults with one of your best chess player, if not the better one in the world.

Just get over your fix. Who will remember you and who will remember Bobby Fisher in a 100 years from now?

3rd July 2009, 03:28pm
#25
by ichabod801
Maryland United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 815

I have to agree that all of the reasons for refusing to call it Fischer Random are B.S. We name openings after grandmasters, why not variants? Who says random is "negative?" That's purely subjective. It's easier to spell? For what, all the idiots playing chess? And Fischer did invent the game. It didn't exist before he made the changes to shuffle chess, and it did afterwards, which pretty much seems to be invention to me. And comparing Fischer to Bonds is cheesy. Fischer may have been a jerk and a whacko, but he didn't cheat.

But in the end, it's just a name. Would a rose smell any different if you called it "plant 960?" Let it go. Those who would change the name will do more harm to themselves with their frustrations than they can do to you, unless you help them by getting all upset about it.

3rd July 2009, 03:40pm
#26
by erik
Mountain View, CA United States
Member Since: May 2007
Member Points: 10121

@ichabod801 - you may not agree with the reasons, but they are not BS. they are reasonable and sincere reasons with which you may or may not agree.

@paul211 - i know i said i would never again respond to one of your posts, but i can't help it. you are always hammering me on how cocky, immature, and naive i am and how when i grow up i'll see the world differently. that's very interesting coming from you. i would have guessed that at your age you would have learned to be less patronizing, rude, and judgemental. i guess age isn't always the great maturity-inducer you claim.

3rd July 2009, 03:54pm
#27
by DeepGreene
Vancouver Canada
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 1281

This is a bizarre thread.  If I refer to 1. e4 e5  2. Nf3 Nf6 as the "Russian Game," should I expect the Friends of Alexander Petrov Society (FAPS) to initiate a hate-mail campaign against me?

The only thing I've learned from this is that there is no significant correlation between the desire to see Fischer's name get its rightful place in history and the ability to actually spell Fischer's name. 

When you think about it, that fact alone explains quite a lot.

3rd July 2009, 04:00pm
#28
by mhtraylor
Mississippi United States
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 125

Guess we should be thankful Fischer wasn't born Ernie Lipschitz...

3rd July 2009, 04:15pm
#29
by Narz
Pitman, New Jersey United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 2812
paul211 wrote:

Just get over your fix. Who will remember you and who will remember Bobby Fisher in a 100 years from now?


If I live to 130 I will remember Erik Smile (and hopefully still be a member here assuming industrial civilization hasn't collapsed by then)! 

I have some compassion for Bobby (for such a genius he seemed very confused) but that doesn't mean I support naming the game after him.  I understand Erik's concerns & I, for one, don't judge him for them.  He's got a family to feed & an amazing game to popularize.  If the immortal soul exists I'm sure Fischer's isn't wringing it's "hands" over this issue. Tongue out

 

Bajoran_Moon wrote:

Yes. Simply put -- too many. No real ring to it. Think of the great titles throughout history: Catch-22, Slaughterhouse 5, Fahrenheit 451, Space 1999, Grease 2... now those are keen precedents!

Chess960 it is.


When I was a kid I created a game called "Submarine 5" (funnily enough I'd just read Slaughterhouse 5).  It involved a grid with two sides battling it out, one had a battleship or a cruiser & the other had five subs.  The subs could not be seen by the player with the more powerful ship but he had a "fog of war" of 3x3 he could see on any side.  His goal was to capture the Sub side's flag without being anilhilated first!  The sub player also had 5 icebergs he could place randomly on his side of the board (similar to Bombs in Stratego) which were indestructable but he could not fully enclose his flag.

I'd explain the rules & exact powers of the ships in more detail but I don't want anyone stealing my idea!!

I invented this game at boarding school at 16 and I only played two full games of it (it seemed fairly balanced though I'm sure it would need some tweaking), ironically I lost both times (as the Cruiser & as the subs). Tongue out

3rd July 2009, 05:01pm
#30
by Narz
Pitman, New Jersey United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 2812

Thanks, actually I originally wanted to re-create a similar game to one my friend Yosuke & I made up in 2nd grade but I couldn't remember how it went & had long since lost touch with Yosuke (he moved back to Japan when we were in 4th grade) so I came up with the Sub5 game instead. Smile

4th July 2009, 12:43am
#31
by LordJones3rd
Bristol Wales
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 623

chess 960, why is it called that

4th July 2009, 02:41am
#32
by Nelso_125
Victoria Australia
Member Since: Sep 2008
Member Points: 427
Bajoran_Moon wrote:
LordJones3rd wrote:

i am happy now i like 960


Is mine the only computer screen where the new logo looks a bit like an odd little pineapple?

 

Maybe it's just me ;)


No, I have that logo too when I am viewing Chess960 games.

4th July 2009, 08:11am
#33
by LordJones3rd
Bristol Wales
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 623

i do

4th July 2009, 09:09am
#34
by WanderingWinder
United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 836

Before you guys jump all over erik for his decision to call it Chess960, you might want to have your beef with the Chess960 world championship, which calls it Chess960 :/

There are plenty of people who don't want their names attached to things. Fischer seemed pretty egotistical, so he's probably not one of those guys. The point here is, though, that this idea doesn't seem really strongly tied to Fischer, and if he didn't come up with it, somebody else would have fairly quickly. Besides, there are plenty of people still crooning over Fischer without having to name this variant after him.

Beyond Seirawan who doesn't want his variant named after him, there's Ivanchuk who calls his "Kiss the Queen" because of the gameplay. I generally prefer naming games with something descriptive and parts of games after their creators or popularizers (if that's a word). This is why I fully support the Fischer variation but give a slight preference to Chess960

4th July 2009, 10:51am
#35
by Beast719
LLANTRISANT Wales
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 497
LordJones3rd wrote:

chess 960, why is it called that


 It should be called Chess 666 - it is the work of the devil

4th July 2009, 11:15am
#36
by LordJones3rd
Bristol Wales
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 623
WanderingWinder wrote:

Before you guys jump all over erik for his decision to call it Chess960, you might want to have your beef with the Chess960 world championship, which calls it Chess960 :/

There are plenty of people who don't want their names attached to things. Fischer seemed pretty egotistical, so he's probably not one of those guys. The point here is, though, that this idea doesn't seem really strongly tied to Fischer, and if he didn't come up with it, somebody else would have fairly quickly. Besides, there are plenty of people still crooning over Fischer without having to name this variant after him.

Beyond Seirawan who doesn't want his variant named after him, there's Ivanchuk who calls his "Kiss the Queen" because of the gameplay. I generally prefer naming games with something descriptive and parts of games after their creators or popularizers (if that's a word). This is why I fully support the Fischer variation but give a slight preference to Chess960


 bit late for that

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