Hi folks, I was wondering if any of our members have any superstitions about playing chess. I've heard of some football players going thru some routine before they play for good luck. I myself am not superstitious are any of you?

Red

Not really I guess,

I meant, not at all:p

You can't rely on miracles from heaven to help you in your game,

it's all done with the brain :]

My only superstition is less of superstition than just habit. If I play on my favorite chess set, I'll do better!

  

     always seems that superstitions apply the less one has controal of a situation. Your Football analogy is a good example, so many variables you cannot anticipate. So lets, as a football player' negate those by always tying the left boot first, makes scense. Chess is diferent the only real variable is the opponents quality, since it's an intelectual activity you negate your own intelect by allowing superstitions. To paraphrase dinkydoe: There is no higher power to appeal to.

     In a scense Chess is too simple to need superstition. 

 

   

I have to keep the peices pefectly in line and facing the same direction

 

Well, I have to play on a tornument chess set.  But that's so I can easaly see the peaces.

I do know of some chess players who will only use a 'lucky pen' when writing the moves down OTB. This makes some sense to me in that they tend to play better when they have their 'lucky pen' than when they don't. This stems from the idea that their 'power' to play better comes from the lucky pen because they won a few games whilst they used it. The sad thing is the belief that chess ability comes from some form of ritual that has to be done in order to play well. The psychological nuances of certain people will never cease to amaze me.

Red

Does luck have any relevance in chess at all? I always get a bit upset when an opponent, while engaging in a preliminary greeting before a game starts, says "good luck".

My first thought is usually "look at this arrogance! They are saying I need LUCK to prevail against their formidable abilities???" And I have trouble formulating any reply at all! It's a deadlock. What to say? "Thank you but I'll let you rely on luck whilst I engage my brain for the task?"

Superstition is neurosis. A kind of narcissism. There is no luck in chess.

Hi Rocking, actually I think luck plays a part in chess. Whilst it is true that we use our brains to work things out, it happens on occasion that sometimes we make mistakes. Now if our opponents, whilst using there brains, miss the oppotunity to take advantage of that mistake, then I call that luck. I have had games otb where I've made a serious mistake that would lose a piece. In the  after game analysis I ask them, why didn't you move your queen to here it wins you a piece? They just say, Oh man didn't even see it. That is what I call luck in chess. It's not that they are bad players or lower rated than I, it's just luck.

Red 

Redserpent2000 wrote:

Hi Rocking, actually I think luck plays a part in chess. Whilst it is true that we use our brains to work things out, it happens on occasion that sometimes we make mistakes. Now if our opponents, whilst using there brains, miss the oppotunity to take advantage of that mistake, then I call that luck. I have had games otb where I've made a serious mistake that would lose a piece. In the  after game analysis I ask them, why didn't you move your queen to here it wins you a piece? They just say, Oh man didn't even see it. That is what I call luck in chess. It's not that they are bad players or lower rated than I, it's just luck.

Red 

Hey Red. Seems to make sense on the surface. Except in this case, wishing your opponent "good luck" would really translate to "I hope, when my concentration lapses, you manage to stay mentally charged and exploit my weaknesses and win." In other words, wishing your opponent "good luck" is akin to saying "I want you to win!!"

 

 

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I'm not sure I agree with "it's not that they are bad players, or lower-rated than I, it's just luck"... if you make a poor move, and your opponent has a similar lapse in concentration and misses the opportunity to exploit this, then that defines a weakness in his/her play AND your play! Do you think Anand would "by luck" miss such an opportunity? Perhaps my point is that trying to engage in some form of narcissistic control of such events (by the use of lucky pens, etc etc) is futile and might hinder the development of the player. Ability comes from HARD HARD work.

Hi rocking, we use the word lucky to mean so many things, I myself would use lucky if my opponent missed a chance to win and ended up losing. An oversight of  his, yes, an oversight by me to give him the chance to win, yes, but I still call it lucky that he missed the chance to win. As for Anand or any GM there is a game on the board at the chess club between two GM's that I will post tonight. A gross blunder by one, but I bet the other GM thought, wow that was lucky.

 

I understand what you mean by players wishing their opponents 'good luck' at the start of the game. It does seem strange that they want you to win. Maybe they should say something like, have a nice game.

 

Red

Hi rocking, here is the position of a game played by a GM. I don't have the complete game. My error in a previous post was to say that this game was played by two GM's, I'm not sure if titles are given to programs but this was played by Kramnik (WC) and Deepfritz. Imagine you are white and it is black to move.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What do you think black played here?

   

rocking wrote 

"Do you think Anand would "by luck" miss such an opportunity? "

Well this game isn't Anand but it is a GM of the highest order. If you was in this position as white against the world champion and then he played the move he did, would you consider it a 'weakness' in his play or good fortune, ie luck, for you?

Red

I know what you mean, Rocking.  I often get annoyed when a person says 'bless you' after I sneeze.  There are countless superstitious and outdated sayings in modern speech.  I usually just take the intent, rather than the literal meaning.  After all, they're just trying to be courteous.  I would like to note, however, that I take care to scratch all such sayings from my repertoire.  Track your speech.  You might be amazed at some of the ridiculous things you're inclined to say out of habit.

Hey silentfilmstar13! I totally agree with your twofold statement (to take note of the "intent" of a phrase, and also to be careful in one's own use of language). But going back to the problem of superstitious belief in chess, I think one of the problems here is a general tendency towards appealing to an Other. The foundation of my point lies in not whether one sees events as happening by chance (luck, etc) but in how one develops one's own abilities in a competitive environment around these inevitable contingencies. Here I'm going back to your original post, Red. It would be a WEAKNESS of any player to factor in the possibility that their opponent might have a weak moment themselves. Taking your example with Kramnik and Deep Fritz, is it possible that the computer, learning from past games, will now factor in an opponent's momentary lapse, blunder, etc (defined as the computer's "lucky break") into its game strategies and tactics? See where I'm headed? So perhaps I'm pointing not towards definitions of luck or chance, but towards what makes a stronger player in a game like chess? I'm tempted to say that "factoring in" luck or chance during game preparation or player development does not improve ability, in fact quite the contrary.

Hi Rocking, I totally agree with you, anyone who plays intentionally waiting for their opponent to blunder or appealing to an 'Other' is not very likely to get very far and it would be a serious weakness on their part to do so. Whether or not computers will eventually recognise what luck is, well that's a whole different topic on AI, lol.

Red

What was black's move in the game? Was it Kg8?

Sorry guys I forgot to post the answer, Kramnik played, Qe3?? No doubt you can see why this is a mistake?

Red

I was thinking Kg8 to avoid mate.  Am I correct?

While I find superstitions in a game to be ridiculous, something may be said about an unnecessary routine providing a constant focus point.  If the player becomes distracted by outside influences, the presence of the lucky pen could draw his attention back to the game through it's now fixated association.