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deliberate programming defect houdini 3 and Pro


  • 10 months ago · Quote · #21

    Xilmi

    Well, "I spent 100$ for a program so I can expect it to work properly" certainly is an understandable attitude.

    But now that you know what the problem is, you could as well get over it and fix it like many have suggested by simply trying another gui or trying to find out which options of the GUI you're using cause the problems.

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #22

    DrFrank124c

    There are so many really good free engines and gui's available. If you are not satisfied with one, try another. Keep trying until you get the one you are satisfied with. Any program that plays at  master level is more than enough to beat a patzer like me.  

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #23

    sloughterchess

    Ron-Weasley wrote:

    Chess king is a program for children to learn to move the pieces. I believe even the playing mode is made to default to handicap levels. But you can set it on full strength. The Houdini 3 Pro in the regular Fritz interface or aquarium interface also have the capacity for handicap playing, but they're not the default. Houdini is the strongest chess engine on the market, I'm pretty sure you are playing handicap levels in the children's interface.


    The program comes with a bar that goes from 800 to 3200; I just assumed when set at 3200 level it played at 3200 level. It is playing at 3200 level occasionally; one on line member thought I was having Rybka play the game with White when I was playing with White. The problem is that the program would play one move at 3200 or several moves at 3200 level; then out of the blue it would play a 1600-level move.

    I don't think it is a handicap problem. I have tried every function that comes with the program and with the exception of setting the playing strength there is no way to play a handicap level. Since I set the program to 3200 strength the general concensus is that it is a problem with the GUI.

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #24

    sloughterchess

    Ron-Weasley wrote:

    Chess king is a program for children to learn to move the pieces. I believe even the playing mode is made to default to handicap levels. But you can set it on full strength. The Houdini 3 Pro in the regular Fritz interface or aquarium interface also have the capacity for handicap playing, but they're not the default. Houdini is the strongest chess engine on the market, I'm pretty sure you are playing handicap levels in the children's interface.

    When the program is supposedly playing at 3200 level, wouldn't you expect the default choice be the first choice in analysis?

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #25

    DunnoItAll

    Why don't you make a video of the problem.  Use ocam.  It's one click to record it, then upload it to youtube.

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #26

    sloughterchess

    DunnoItAll wrote:

    Why don't you make a video of the problem.  Use ocam.  It's one click to record it, then upload it to youtube.

    I can't; I am on dial up. Motion takes forever on dial up. On Monday I'll see if my computer guy who has broad band can do that. Thanks.

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #27

    sloughterchess

    After weeks of back and forth with the Chess King representative, Diego, now Houdini 3 Pro plays the openings superbly and the middle game at its suggested strength.

    What isn't clear is why Houdini 3 from Chess Base plays the middle game at about 2000 level.

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #28

    InDetention

    can everyone please join my group best of chess? Everybody can be admin.

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #29

    MDTR

    sloughterchess wrote:

    Anyone purchasing Houdini 3 and Houdini 3 Pro hoping to compete against a 3300 level machine is deluding themselves. The programmers of Houdini 3 and the Pro have deliberately promoted the practice of having them play anything but the best move, thus the play mode is meaningless if you expect a 3300 opponent.

    According to a representative of the sales force, Houdini 3 and the Pro were designed for analysis, not over the board play, so there is no attempt by the programmer to have them play the best moves, so randomly, they play junk so the "average" playing strength of the program is random and varies from 1200-2300 in play mode, not 3300.

    If you want to play chess against a World Class program, then Rybka 4 Extreme is a vastly superior choice.

    get stockfish 4 it's nearly as strong as houdini 3 and it's free... about houdini...maybe you downloaded the wrong file lol. this happened when you download illegal software :) i have houdini 3 and matched it against other engines and it's 100 elo stronger than rybka 4 for sure....

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #30

    sloughterchess

    Houdini 3 Pro and Rybka 4 Extreme work just fine on my computer after Diego from Chess King sent me over a dozen emails. My Houdini 3 from Chess Base plays the openings reasonably (overlooking the occasional opening trap), but butchers the middle game. I sent an email yesterday to Chess Base---so far no response. On the cover of the DVD Chess Base states, "The World's strongest chess engine running on the World's finest chess interface". Here is some of its stellar play:

     

    1.e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Na5 6. Bb5+ c6 7. dxc6 bxc6 8.Qf3 Be7 9. Bxc6+ Nxc6 10. Qxc6+ Bd7 11. Qf3 O-O 12. Nc3 Rc8 13. d3 Bc6 14. Qh3 Bb4 15. O-O Bxc3 16. bxc3 h6 17. Nf3 Bxf3 18. Qxf3 Rxc3 19. Bb2 Rxc2 20. Bxe5 Qd5 21. Qd1 Rc6 22. Qa4 Nd7 23. Bg3 with the better side of equality.

     


    4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nd4 6.c3 b5 7.Bf1 Nxd5 8.Ne4 Nf5? 9.Bxb5+ Bd7 10.Qa4 Nb6 11.Bxd7+ Qxd7? 12.Nxd7 Nxd7 13.d3 Rd8 14.Ke2 Ne7 15.f3 f5 16.Nf2 & Black is a pawn down with the poorer pawn structure.

     


    4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 b5 6.Bf1 h6? 7.Nxf7 Kxf7 8.dxc6 Bc5? 9.Be2 Ne4 10.O-O Nxf2? 11.d4 Bxd4 12.Rxd2 Bxd2+ 13.Kxd2 Qxd1 14.Bxd1 & Black has a miserable position.

     


    4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.d4 Be6? 7.Nxe6 fxe6 8.dxe5 Nxe5 9.Qh5+ Nf7 10.O-O & Black stands much worse than after 6...Nxd4! (The Heisman Variation) 7.c3 b5! =

     


    4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 7.Qf3+ Ke6 8.Nc3 Ndb4 9.O-O c6 10.d4 Qf6 11.Qe2 Ke7 12.Ne4 Qg6 13.c3 Bf5 14.f3 Na6 15.dxe5 Nac7 16.g4 Kd7 17.Ng5 Be6 18.f4 Qe8 19.Bxd5 Bxd5 20.e6 Kc8 +/-

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #31

    EscherehcsE

    sloughterchess wrote:

    Houdini 3 Pro and Rybka 4 Extreme work just fine on my computer after Diego from Chess King sent me over a dozen emails.

    After weeks of tormenting us with your CK problem, that's all you have for us? "Diego did something, it works great now, See ya!" Yell

    How about giving the details of what you know? Did Diego only fix your copy of CK, or has he/will he incorporate the fix into a patch so others won't have the problem? Was the problem in the engine or the GUI? Is the engine a stock Houdini that can be exported to other GUIs, or is it a special compile just for the CK GUI (and that maybe can only be run in the CK GUI and no other GUIs?) Did Diego have to install a new opening book into the GUI to fix the problem of junk book moves being played?

    A million questions have I, and you give us virtually nothing?! Tongue Out

    I guess it doesn't really matter to me, because I don't think I'll ever be buying a copy of CK, but others reading these posts who might still be considering a purchase of CK might be interested in the details.

     

    P.S. - Maybe one more request? Part of the reason I've basically stopped going over the games you post is that you almost never bother to mention which side the computer is playing, and sometimes it takes considerable effort for me to determine that bit of information. Maybe you could start doing that for anyone who might still be interested in going over your games?

    Also, It would be nice if you could also mention when the engine leaves the opening book.

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #32

    sloughterchess

    EscherehcsE wrote:
    sloughterchess wrote:

    Houdini 3 Pro and Rybka 4 Extreme work just fine on my computer after Diego from Chess King sent me over a dozen emails.

    After weeks of tormenting us with your CK problem, that's all you have for us? "Diego did something, it works great now, See ya!"

    How about giving the details of what you know? Did Diego only fix your copy of CK, or has he/will he incorporate the fix into a patch so others won't have the problem? Was the problem in the engine or the GUI? Is the engine a stock Houdini that can be exported to other GUIs, or is it a special compile just for the CK GUI (and that maybe can only be run in the CK GUI and no other GUIs?) Did Diego have to install a new opening book into the GUI to fix the problem of junk book moves being played?

    A million questions have I, and you give us virtually nothing?!

    I guess it doesn't really matter to me, because I don't think I'll ever be buying a copy of CK, but others reading these posts who might still be considering a purchase of CK might be interested in the details.

     

    P.S. - Maybe one more request? Part of the reason I've basically stopped going over the games you post is that you almost never bother to mention which side the computer is playing, and sometimes it takes considerable effort for me to determine that bit of information. Maybe you could start doing that for anyone who might still be interested in going over your games?

    Also, It would be nice if you could also mention when the engine leaves the opening book.

    Diego had me download an update to 3.0.7; the rest was in an email that my computer guy dealt with---sorry but I didn't do any of the repairs.

     

    Diego gave me a completely new opening book which, according to him, works "perfectly", but it still does some weird stuff e.g. 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.b4 Be7?! This is "book" because the computer plays it instantly.

     

    Now it gets interesting. Out of curiousity I input 5.a4 and the Pro replied, 5...Bxb4! Since a4 is a useful move in the Evans Gambit Accepted, it seems odd that 4...Be7 is book. Here are a few additional moves: 6.c3 Ba5 7.d4 Qe7 8.O-O d6 9.Qb3 exd4 10.cxd4 Bb6 11.a5! Bxd4 12.Nc3! with a strong attack. 

    I played White in all openings: In Game 1 Houdini's first move out of book was 13...Bc6

    In Game 2, it was 8...Nf5

    In Game 3 it was 7...Kxf7

    In Game 4, it was 7...fxe6

    In Game 5, it was 9...c6 (It took forever to find this)


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