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Draws


  • 3 years ago · Quote · #1

    ChessisGood

    What is your opinion on chess games that result in a draw?

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #2

    ChessisGood

    To let everyone know, I am researching the strong opposition to draws a great percentage of the chess community has displayed. I would like some input about why you like/dislike draws.

    Some questions to consider include:

    • If a player rated 200 points higher offered you a draw on the first move, would you accept it? If not, why?
    • You have even material against a player rated 200 points lower than you. Looking at the board, you see that he has a mate in 5. You are not sure if he sees it, but he offers you a draw. Do you accept it?
  • 3 years ago · Quote · #3

    gards1964

    1. No. I want to play not draw off the get go. Where's the fun in that.

    2. Yes. If I see it why would I risk the mate when he's offered draw. If I had a great gambit I might think hard first but a mate in five is not that hard to see. If he was in time pressure and I wasn't I would give his offer serious thought but still proably accept.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #4

    ivandh

    I like draws. Especially because I think endgames are on the boring side, if we have ground out a good middlegame without either side getting an advantage, a draw is a nice fair shake for both of us.

    I don't care about ratings, but my decision to draw may be influenced by the play I've seen in the game. Sometimes I will play on if my opponent has made a lot of sloppy mistakes.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #5

    dbruser

    1. No. I play because I enjoy chess, and I enjoy a little bit of challenge. Maybe if it was a tournament or something and I was tired and not in the mood for chess, but even still, I probably wouldn't accept.

    2. Yes. I still would prefer a draw over a loss, and when my opponent has mate in 5. If my opponent has an easy win, I would definately take a draw over a loss.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #6

    ChessisGood

    Some more questions:

    • You are beating your opponent in a R+B vs. R endgame. You have about five seconds left, plus the five second delay. Your opponent has 20 minutes. He offers you a draw. Do you accept it?
    • You are a whole point ahead of everyone in the last round of the tournament, except for your opponent, who has 1/2 point less. A draw will get you first place. Your opponent knows this, but a draw will get him clear 2nd as well. There is a lot of money involved, and your opponent asks you if you want a draw before the round actually starts. What do you say?
    • You are allowed one game with analysis against the GM of your choice. On the twelfth move, you see a way to get a quick repetition. Do you take it?
    • You are playing a blitz game against an equal opponent. You each have only a queen, but he has 10 seconds and no delay. You have plenty of time, but he offers a draw. Do you accept?
  • 3 years ago · Quote · #7

    gards1964

    1. Yes. I'm not good enough a R+B vR to manage that time well enough.

    2. No. I'd rather play and see if its drawish on the board. The prizes are cool but I want to win my way to 1st.

    3. No. I've been basically offered free analysis on my play I'm going to take advantage of that to play my best and learn from the game. 

    4. No. Blitz is not real chess where the art of the game is part and parcel. It is a variant where clock management is a highly important element of playing well. Pushing you opponent ot lose on time is most certainly a propoer tactic in Blitz. 

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #8

    ChessisGood

    • Is it moral to accept a draw in the first 20 moves, before anything has been decided?
    • You reach a drawn endgame (e.g. R+3P vs. R+3P), and your opponent offers a draw. Do you accept, or do you wait and see if one of you makes a mistake?
    • Are drawn games "boring" to you?
  • 3 years ago · Quote · #9

    dbruser

    1. Yes. I don't think I could win a R+B v R endgame with half an hour, and playing on would only make me time out.

    2. No. I might if he agreed to play me later, or i wasn't feeling up to a game right now. As long as I get to play him some time or another, I would be satisfied. I would probably play a little less aggresively though.

    3. No (unless I was clearly losing). I would relish the opportunity to get play a grandmaster, and even better, to have him analize my play.

    4. Yes, especially if he played a good game. QvQ is a theoretical draw anyways, and I would feel that he deserves the draw.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #10

    trysts

    @post #8

    -Morality has nothing to do with it.

    -Depends on the position.

    -No.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #11

    travis1010

    I don't mind when people draw.  Sometimes they are too evenly matched.  Personally, I always play to win, but at my level (class B player) draws aren't as common as masters and GMs.  If a 200+ rated opponent offered me a draw  on move 1, I'd say no, because that seems fishy.  If, they offered me a draw in a equal/unclear position on move 20, I'd take it if it was a big money tournament, otherwise no.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #12

    ChessisGood

    Thanks guys for the great answers! Now, here is a story of mine:

    In the TN Regional Qualifier, I entered as the top seed, but played badly, getting a forced draw and a win against much lower-rated players. In Round #3, I placed a player rated about 200 points lower than me. However, I knew that we had reached many drawn endgames in the past, and I was intimidated.

    At this time, I was exhausted by 70-move endgames, and was hoping for a quick end to the game (Hopefully, a win!). On move three, my opponent offered a draw. After thinking for a moment, I accepted. This was an unrated tournament, and a draw would give me good chances to qualify for state.

    Sadly, I only won one of my final two games and ended up with 3/5 points. At this point, it was up to the tiebreaks to decide. For hours (it seemed like it) I waited for the results. In the end, I came in 7th, qualifying by two places!

    Looks like a draw worked out pretty well in this instance, but it sure caused a lot of unneeded stress. In a later tournament, I beat the same opponent quite quickly. Nevertheless, one never knows...I could have lost two games and ended up without qualifying.

    I will offer some more questions and another story tomorrow.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #13

    browni3141

    ChessisGood wrote:

    Some more questions:

    You are beating your opponent in a R+B vs. R endgame. You have about five seconds left, plus the five second delay. Your opponent has 20 minutes. He offers you a draw. Do you accept it? No, 5s per move should be enough to play on. You are a whole point ahead of everyone in the last round of the tournament, except for your opponent, who has 1/2 point less. A draw will get you first place. Your opponent knows this, but a draw will get him clear 2nd as well. There is a lot of money involved, and your opponent asks you if you want a draw before the round actually starts. What do you say? I would say yes, unless it is against tournament rules. If it is then I wouldn't verbally agree and just make a draw over the board. You are allowed one game with analysis against the GM of your choice. On the twelfth move, you see a way to get a quick repetition. Do you take it? Yes, it would be stupid not to play your best against a GM. If you have better moves than the repetion, then you should play one of those. You are playing a blitz game against an equal opponent. You each have only a queen, but he has 10 seconds and no delay. You have plenty of time, but he offers a draw. Do you accept? Of course. You'd have to be a real jerk not to. If you don't he can stop the clocks call over the arbiter if this is an OTB tournament. If this is online, then hopefully you know how to premove and block the opponent afterwards. This has nothing to do with clock management.
  • 3 years ago · Quote · #14

    waffllemaster

    ChessisGood wrote:

    To let everyone know, I am researching the strong opposition to draws a great percentage of the chess community has displayed. I would like some input about why you like/dislike draws.

    Some questions to consider include:

    If a player rated 200 points higher offered you a draw on the first move, would you accept it? If not, why? You have even material against a player rated 200 points lower than you. Looking at the board, you see that he has a mate in 5. You are not sure if he sees it, but he offers you a draw. Do you accept it?

    1. No.  If it's online, I want to play, so lets play!  If it's at a tournament then I'm there to learn something from those better than me, so we need to keep playing out the whole game.

    2. No.  No one offers a draw to a higher rated player if they see a forced mate, so I would conclude they don't see the mate, and are nervous about the position.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #15

    waffllemaster

    ChessisGood wrote:

    Some more questions:

    You are beating your opponent in a R+B vs. R endgame. You have about five seconds left, plus the five second delay. Your opponent has 20 minutes. He offers you a draw. Do you accept it?
     
    You are a whole point ahead of everyone in the last round of the tournament, except for your opponent, who has 1/2 point less. A draw will get you first place. Your opponent knows this, but a draw will get him clear 2nd as well. There is a lot of money involved, and your opponent asks you if you want a draw before the round actually starts. What do you say?
     
    You are allowed one game with analysis against the GM of your choice. On the twelfth move, you see a way to get a quick repetition. Do you take it?
     
    You are playing a blitz game against an equal opponent. You each have only a queen, but he has 10 seconds and no delay. You have plenty of time, but he offers a draw. Do you accept?

    1.  No, because there's no risk of losing, I can blitz moves out at 1 second per move to gain time and not worry about the position.  If I want a draw It'll happen later.

    2. Sure, if there's a lot of money involved I woudln't mind at all :)

    3.  Yes, draws by repetition are part of the game, if he falls into a drawn position against me that's his problem.

    4. Yes, (both online and in person) because the position on the board is a draw, and I care more about chess itself than what the clock may try to decide.  (besides they may be able to claim insufficient losing chances or something... I dunno if it's blitz though...)  Even if I happened to win on the clock (say neither of us were paying attention) I would think of it as a draw in my head :p

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #16

    waffllemaster

    ChessisGood wrote:
    Is it moral to accept a draw in the first 20 moves, before anything has been decided?
     
    You reach a drawn endgame (e.g. R+3P vs. R+3P), and your opponent offers a draw. Do you accept, or do you wait and see if one of you makes a mistake?
     
    Are drawn games "boring" to you?

    Morality has not much to do with chess.  If I accepted a draw that early It'd be because of a long tournament or prize money.

    No, I'd grind it out and wait for a mistake (unless my opponent is much higher rated, then I'd grab the "well earned" draw ;)

    No, I like drawn games because that's usually when the opponent relaxes and gets sloppy and you can win if you're very alert :)

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #17

    Bannockburn

      I had a drawn game the other night-RK vs RK. But I had less time on my clock than he did. So he checked. I checked and for the next 30 or so moves it went the same. But no draw. My "gracious" opponent waited till my time ran out and claimed the win. Bastard.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #18

    travis1010

    I played a tourney game last night against an opponent 300 pts below me.  He offered me a draw 3 times throughout the game.  I had a better position the whole time and I won easily, so that was kind of annoying.  

    In fact I just realized I have never offered a draw unless it was very clearly drawn.  I have no problem with offering draws, but I just would rather prove that its a draw than make an offer early.  The worst is when your opponent offers a draw, you decline, and then go on to lose.

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #19

    gards1964

    @ browni3141

    On the Blitz answer  - what are you calling the arbiter for? What rule is being violated here?

  • 3 years ago · Quote · #20

    dbruser

    Q + K vs Q + K is a draw unless there is a forced win (checkmate or a skewer). Article 10 of the FIDE laws of chess states that when a player has less than two minutes left on their clock during a rapid play finish (the end of a game when all remaining moves must be completed within a limited amount of time), they may claim a draw if their opponent is not attempting to win the game by "normal means" or cannot win the game by "normal means". "Normal means" can be taken to mean the delivery of checkmate or the winning of material. In other words, a draw is claimable if the opponent is merely attempting to win on time, or cannot possibly win except on time. It is up to the arbiter to decide whether such a claim will be granted or not.


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