I acually know of the research of what you speak of. Generally, females average intelligance is acually a few points higher then males. Although, there are four mentally advanced (( genius )) male for every one female. Though may not believe it, I am what you would call a mentally advanced male. From my experiances with any difference of the generality of male and female it's that in general females are a bit more patient and subtle. Other then that, I would say that it's anyones game. You do have a point though, women tend to be a bit less competitive. Probably because men have a higher level of tes. Yes, this would affect how you do everything. Not just physical things. Though, I have met some very competitive women. Also, while being intelligant would give you a very good boost (( Unfortunately for me, this boost isn't turning out to be enough for me. 'least so far. heh )) as long as you develope a strategy, learn how to adapt, and etc. then you can be dumb as a door knob and be the world champion. Well, I suppose that would work untill you came across timers. Anyway, I digress. I would think that such sexist comments would probably be at a minimum here. Though, that's just the impression I get. So, basically I agree. I haven't posted on this forum yet, so I wanted my first post to be a bit more then just, " I agree". Anyway, later days.
In my opinion, if there is not a female world champion in chess within 50-100 yrs, then it can be determined that among the best of the best of the best of the best, men have some advantage than women. However, nothing can be determined as of yet.
Times are changing. Just as we see in Math and Science, soon women will have equal representation in chess. I look forward to the day. Peace.
What I see here ... genetic differences between men and women, which make the latter to be less competitive at chess :))
There are generally quite few women in sciences (Physics, Math, Computer Science) and in chess. I know a joke which says that, from all the physicists, 90% are Jews, 9% are other nationalities and the rest are women. Much of this difference between sexes is made in the childhood: girls are encouraged to draw, sing, read novels, while boys are most likely encouraged to solve puzzles. Other than that, there is no difference. If girls are encouraged to paly chess from an early age ... well, look at the Polgar sisters (all 3 of them).
This is a great thread. Hopefully more women will read it, and see that not all guys that play chess are bigots. I would think there's a difference between the way a woman views a chess board (and it's position) is different than that of a man's. (Most) Women definitely have a different sense of humor. I've seen plenty of movies that I'll laugh hard at, but women will say "bleh", and visa versa, though I seem to be more forgiving of comedy (I say "bleh" less.) Maybe it all goes back to the aformentioned testosterone levels. I don't have evidence, but it could be that women that are competitive have a sense of humor more in tune with mine (as I'm very competitive.) I like the post about finding a woman that plays chess well to marry, but I'd rather have the athletic girl (athletes are sooo hot, esp. if they can beat me!) Athletic girl that can play chess? I'd be forced to ask her to marry me on the first date. :)
I feel that wowmen can play chess as well as the men however its not something that evryone likes to play me and my wife play sometimes I tought her about the game and she picks up on it fast shes beaten me a couple of times I am better just by experience anyway ya it would be cool if there were more playing it would add some color to the game I ve really never given much thought to it but the game of chess is about skill and the differant positions that come out in evry game even though you may play the same opening kind of cool anyway have a good one.
Some earlier posters have hit the nail on the head -- it's mostly a cultural issue. In the United States and many western nations, women are given many of the same opportunities as men. Not there yet for total equality, but a much better situation than in much of the world.
In many other countries, though, women don't have access to the same educational or social opportunities that men do. So women that might have turned out to be very good chess players never come to the board, and we never know about them.
Hopefully we'll see more strong women players in the future, but it'll probably be a while yet until there are as many women as men in the top echelons.
I agree that it is MOSTLY a cultural issue. But once girls learn chess at the same time boys do, there will be little cultural reason. Even now I think the culture is really starting to treat chess as a game for both boys and girls so if there is a significant difference of interest between boys and girls in chess, it should be apparent relatively soon. I.E if a huge influx of girls do not rush in to match the number of males involved, then at least INTEREST can be proven to have a gender determinant.
It's enough experiences to say a difference in interest for chess and level of skill between genders is NOT "mostly a cultural issue". Yo refered to "western countries" - you need to refer also to former comunist countries of Eastern Europe, including former Soviet Union (Russia and others). An equality of genders was one of key issues in comunist's ideology (my parents educated me this way, and eyuality was a natural presumption for me - I said I am post-feminist ; males are generaly physicall stronger, but it's not realy important - I am prety tall and strong, I sometimes beat guys in arm-wrestling - and there are extreme differences in physicall and mental abilities within every gender). Still, statistics say there are differences in some achievements - boys are generally better with numbers, girls with words etc.. So what? It don't means we are not equall in general.
However, in chess, we can look at experiences of former Soviet Union, especially Russia. Governement suported chess strongly, and thre are 90 years of experience. Even today, half of best 100 chess players in the world, according to FIDE rating list, are from ex-SU; and maybe half of ALL chess players in the world are from ex-SU.
Students leart chess in every elementary school, girls equally as boys. Female chess were strongy suported. And result is, still, that before Judith Polgar, except Vera Menchik in 1920s and 39s (she was Russian, living in England), only two wome were among the first 100 in the world: Gaprindashvili and Chiburdanidze. Both from Georgia - and female chess in Georgia is an exceptional case!
At the moment, there are 61.603 players on FIDE rating list with rating >2000, and 3779 of them are women - 6% only. Fom Russia: 8423 both, 842 women - 10% only, after 90 years of experience. Georgia is, as I said, an exception: 246 both, 79 females i.e. 32%! (And in last 10-15 years, China too). STill, the best female in Georgia is No 17 at the national rating list - not good enough.
And, let us go back to general numbers. As I said, among players with rating >2000 only 6% are females. And then:
It's very clear: higher level of skils - lower percent of females. If we compare achievement in physical sports, statistics can be very similar, I supose. We can't find even similar difference in intelectual achievements, even mathematics or ingeneering. And as I mentioned before, my friend's remark (female, karate black belt 2nd degree): women are about 20% among karate masters, and about 2% among chess masters. (They must not fight agaist males for black belt, of course, but even if they need, they could win sometimes - as they actually do in treinings and unoficial matches - and at least 2% could take a black belt.)
So, I concluded that difference is so high that you can't explain it only, or mostly, as cultural issue. OK, males are generally better in chess, as like as in karate or aero piloting; so what? I am still among the top 2% here, and I strugle to be among the top 1%. And, as I said before: women are about 60% in high education now, and in next decade a percentage of women in top positions in politics, bussines, science etc. will continue to grow.
There are more males in physics and more females in biology - so what? I can beat some guys in arm-wrestling, but most of them can beat me - so what, in both cases? I am prety agresive in chess (sometimes in life to, but usually not... err... I think I am not ), I like to win and I am frustrated when I lost, and I work to improve my skills and results - as everybody else. What is case IN GENERAL is not important for me PERSONALLY.
your statistics are quite convincing, I would say that some time is still necessary to conclude that men are superior to women in chess at the grandmaster level, i.e. time for more women to get involved, however I completely agree with your conclusion.
Step-by-step, пока от монитора не ослеп
60%? Не дождёшься!
>2711 bouth26 females0 0%
To all fault - your European matriarchy, and rotten popculture
@Rocket2050: Oh, doživjet ćeš! Matriarchy in Russia too! A oslijepiti nećeš.
I wonder how many guys in the middle of a game look at their arms and say to themselves, "Hmmmm nice bicep!"?
I like to think that women and men have an equal chance to be stellar at chess but this is in fact not true.
This is because of some weird genetic phenomenon that causes men to be more extreme in their mental capacities. This means that the smartest men are on average smarter than the smartest women (of course this also means that the stupidest men are more stupid than the stupidest women). Women are a lot more stable in general. So while women have a smaller chance of being brilliant they also have a smaller chance of being retarded. (note that I'm talking in averages, this does not mean that the best chess player in the world could not be a woman, it just means there is less chance of the best chess player in the world being a woman)
What does this mean for chess? That the top will probably consist of mostly men. But since the average intelligence for men and women is about equal there should be the same amount of male and female chess players in the world.
Finally I must note that women in general are a bit less competitive so a lot of women like to just enjoy the game with friends in a social manner instead of going to tournaments.
That could explain some of the reasons for seeing less women on a forum like this.
Another reason though is that a lot of men on forums such as this one are generally hostile towards women and many women even go as far as claiming to be men on forums to avoid the sexist comments.
Finally I guess it doesn't help that in the past chess was seen as a men's game.
I have read somewhere that you take your genious mostly from your mother and why not she bears you and give you birth so why should nature not favorize the most active partner?
why is the study of cognitive differences between men and women "childish and immature." Perhaps a better understanding of such differences would lead to better understanding of the differencers between mental disorders and other such stuff. To walk away from the topic just because it might stir up "hot opinions" is foolish. Hasn't science always stirred up strife in society? What makes now any different :P Certainly I do not think anyone here has made any hot comments or angered replies. On the contrary I find this thread quite civil in its discussion and disagreement among members. Certainly such conversation has some intellectual value?
Perhaps, even in today's world women are too busy to raise a family and do most of the chores at home and men do not participate enough to free their beloved partner to engage in a hobby that is time consuming.
Yes many men are still too free to offer any help to their counterpart.
Try the experience to take charge of 75% of your home business,what women do daily, with kids, with preparing their lunch for the next day, to give them their daily bath, to sing a song or to tell them a story at bedtime, or to pay all the bills monthly, how about doing the weekly grocery and running to the pharmacy? Did you know that some women really hate this as they consider it a waste of time.
Now bring you daughter to the skating rink for a lesson or your son to the next scheduled ball game perhaps to a piano or guitar lesson.
What about buying clothes for the children or simply suggesting Christmas gifts.
I will stop here and not only strongly believe but affirmatively believe that women in general have a more heavy burden that a men, sorry this is my position.
Think about it and don't tell me that you take the garbage out once a week or pick up the mail, this is presomptious as to your contribution and mine into a participation in a family life.
Food for thought and not for reply.
I never noticed this but I do know that I am not as good at chess as I thought I was when I first joined. I still enjoy playing, though and hopefully I will learn a few things. I think women generally tend to think differently than men but not always. I love a challenge though.
i remember a scientific research i read many years ago about physical differences between man and woman and one of the examples was about chess....as far i can recall there were 2 major points
1) the right hand side of the brain is much more efficient in women than men and vice versa , thats why women excell at some jobs and men on others , the LH side is more concerned about logic and analysis thats why men excell more in chess (that is in comparasion basis not meaning that women are not logical)
2) chess tornaments needs high mental stress in short periods of time , in which men are better, women can sustain medium levels of stress but for much longer periods of time than men (men get fatigue)
what do u think?
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