Fischer or Kasparov. Who's the best?

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10th February 2008, 08:06pm
#1
by roland_almira
United States
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 16

Each and everyone of us have different preference regarding who is the better player,or even the best.Some say that a player maybe the best on his time and on his prime but if you try to look for extra ordinary circumstances like beating another challenger with two straight wins with two different contenders on a straight winning streak with no lost is really something.So i think FISCHER has the edge over Kasparov.He really is the greatest player of all time and even with an IQ that is greater than Einstein.


10th February 2008, 08:15pm
#2
by Charlie91
International
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 859
I agree, Fischer is better, if not the best, inspite of his lack of support.  But Kasparov is second place in my book.
10th February 2008, 08:22pm
#3
by StacyBearden
New Caprica United States
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 900
I gotta agree with you guys even though I'm a huge Kasparov fan. I would place Ernesto Boungcloud third.
10th February 2008, 08:37pm
#4
by Jaguarphd
California United States
Member Since: Jun 2007
Member Points: 695
I highly doubt if anyone would ever be as amazing as Fischer...
10th February 2008, 09:14pm
#5
by m0xln456
United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 55
Mr. Boungcloud is the best player behing R. Fischer and G. Kasparov.
10th February 2008, 09:58pm
#6
by Aurel63
Curtea de Arges Romania
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 38
StacyBearden wrote: I gotta agree with you guys even though I'm a huge Kasparov fan. I would place Ernesto Boungcloud third.

 Who is this guy?


10th February 2008, 10:09pm
#7
by rutra23
Davenport United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 62
Kasparov knows how to win and Fischer had the will to win. definately Bobby!
10th February 2008, 10:11pm
#8
by najdorf
Cordoba Argentina
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 56
I think Kasparov is a better player.
10th February 2008, 10:15pm
#9
by oldsalt7
India
Member Since: Jun 2007
Member Points: 27
At their best Fischer,absolutely Fischer. Especially if you put Kasparov back a generation,he would not be up to Fischer's standard.
10th February 2008, 10:20pm
#10
by rootworm
United States
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 100
najdorf wrote: I think Kasparov is a better player.

 do you have any reason behind this? let me ask you something... Has Kasparov ever defeated two opponents in back-to-back matches with perfect scores in order to play for the world championship? I think not. 


10th February 2008, 10:48pm
#11
by neneko
Sweden
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 1747

Kasparov do have higher elo...

I find Fischer more innovative though, his games are lovely to watch


11th February 2008, 02:25am
#12
by PurpleHaze
Moscow Russia
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 15
rootworm wrote: najdorf wrote: I think Kasparov is a better player.

 do you have any reason behind this? let me ask you something... Has Kasparov ever defeated two opponents in back-to-back matches with perfect scores in order to play for the world championship? I think not. 


I'll have to go with Kasparov too. On top of the fact that he has a higher Elo and IQ rating than Fischer; he's also the only chess player that I know of who has participated in simuls against GM teams and beat them.


11th February 2008, 02:35am
#13
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 4072
neneko wrote:

Kasparov do have higher elo...

I find Fischer more innovative though, his games are lovely to watch


Almost everyone agrees that today's elo ratings are inflated. The disagreement comes concerning by how much are the inflated compared to the 60s and 70s? 100 Points seems to be fair by most who argue this point, so add 100 to Fischers best of 2785 and you have 2885 , which puts Fischer as the highest rated of all time. Ofcourse some here are going to argue that the ratings are not inflated today. For them I have a question. Do you think every player today rated over 2700 elo is better than Spassky was in his prime? Spassky never broke 2700 elo, his best was about 2680. One more thing I want to point out, not only has Fischer had amazing feats in chess that Kasparov has not even approached but Kasparov only has 50% score against both Spassky and the late Tigran Petrosian and Kasparov was white in all of his games with Petrosian. Do I really need to remind anyone here what Fischer did to them?


11th February 2008, 02:46am
#14
by 350mde
tarn&garonne England
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 134
for me fischer's career was too short to place him at the top, so for me it's kasparov.
11th February 2008, 03:10am
#15
by Amnesiac
Devon United Kingdom
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 1248
I have noticed a trend that everyone from America seems to be going for Fischer...I wonder why that is?! I think they both had great points to them, but I will go for Kasparov due to his massive amount of work into opening theory and improving computer chess etc etc.
11th February 2008, 03:15am
#16
by millerthesmurf
cornwall England
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 273

kasparov is by far the better player 1 question though

 

who the hell is boungcloud??


11th February 2008, 03:20am
#17
by PurpleHaze
Moscow Russia
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 15
Reb wrote: neneko wrote:

Kasparov do have higher elo...

I find Fischer more innovative though, his games are lovely to watch


Almost everyone agrees that today's elo ratings are inflated. The disagreement comes concerning by how much are the inflated compared to the 60s and 70s? 100 Points seems to be fair by most who argue this point, so add 100 to Fischers best of 2785 and you have 2885 , which puts Fischer as the highest rated of all time. Ofcourse some here are going to argue that the ratings are not inflated today. For them I have a question. Do you think every player today rated over 2700 elo is better than Spassky was in his prime? Spassky never broke 2700 elo, his best was about 2680. One more thing I want to point out, not only has Fischer had amazing feats in chess that Kasparov has not even approached but Kasparov only has 50% score against both Spassky and the late Tigran Petrosian and Kasparov was white in all of his games with Petrosian. Do I really need to remind anyone here what Fischer did to them?


How can you be so sure that ratings today are inflated without providing any concrete evidence? Yes, I could understand your argument about Spassky's Elo rating, when he was world champion, compared to GM ratings of today; but I believe that ratings today are so much higher because chess players now have access to more chess theory and computer programs, which makes learning chess easier and faster, and as a result - they're better at chess than their predecessors.

The Kasparov's and Fischer's score against Spassky argument also seems good, but it's quite flawed. Sure, it might seem logical to compare their scores againt the same opponent, but it's not accurate. First of all, Kasparov wasn't in his prime when he played against Spassky or Petrosian. Second, Fischer played around 50 games against Spassky (half of which were played in 92') and 30 against Petrosian, while Kasparov played only 8 games against Spassky and 4 against Petrosian.

 

 


11th February 2008, 03:28am
#18
by Chessroshi
Indianapolis United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 739
After much deliberation.... I choose Pepsi. You all are looking for answers to a question without a scientific proof, so just like who you like. Mr. Boungcloud is some 11 year olds way to get a chuckle out of drug use. My choice between the two chessplayers is Kasparov, because, unlike Fischer, Gary DOES have people after him because he is doing powerful things off of the chessboard. Maybe Fischer was better at chess, but Kasparov was smart enough to not let it consume him.
11th February 2008, 03:37am
#19
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 4072
350mde wrote: for me fischer's career was too short to place him at the top, so for me it's kasparov.

If longevity at the top is what matters most to you , you should be a Lasker fan and not Kasparov. Surprised


11th February 2008, 03:49am
#20
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 4072
PurpleHaze wrote: Reb wrote: neneko wrote:

Kasparov do have higher elo...

I find Fischer more innovative though, his games are lovely to watch


Almost everyone agrees that today's elo ratings are inflated. The disagreement comes concerning by how much are the inflated compared to the 60s and 70s? 100 Points seems to be fair by most who argue this point, so add 100 to Fischers best of 2785 and you have 2885 , which puts Fischer as the highest rated of all time. Ofcourse some here are going to argue that the ratings are not inflated today. For them I have a question. Do you think every player today rated over 2700 elo is better than Spassky was in his prime? Spassky never broke 2700 elo, his best was about 2680. One more thing I want to point out, not only has Fischer had amazing feats in chess that Kasparov has not even approached but Kasparov only has 50% score against both Spassky and the late Tigran Petrosian and Kasparov was white in all of his games with Petrosian. Do I really need to remind anyone here what Fischer did to them?


How can you be so sure that ratings today are inflated without providing any concrete evidence? Yes, I could understand your argument about Spassky's Elo rating, when he was world champion, compared to GM ratings of today; but I believe that ratings today are so much higher because chess players now have access to more chess theory and computer programs, which makes learning chess easier and faster, and as a result - they're better at chess than their predecessors.

The Kasparov's and Fischer's score against Spassky argument also seems good, but it's quite flawed. Sure, it might seem logical to compare their scores againt the same opponent, but it's not accurate. First of all, Kasparov wasn't in his prime when he played against Spassky or Petrosian. Second, Fischer played around 50 games against Spassky (half of which were played in 92') and 30 against Petrosian, while Kasparov played only 8 games against Spassky and 4 against Petrosian.

 

 


A link for the "evidence" on today's rating inflation was provided in another thread by batgirl I believe. Ask her for the link. From your response it seems you believe there is no rating inflation. Do you think all the players over 2700 today (more than 20 of them) are better then than Spassky was in his prime? I do not. While I agree with you that Kasparov was not yet in his prime when he played both Spassky and Petrosian that is counterbalanced by the fact that both of them were also well past their prime. Its interesting that Fischer himself once said that "Morphy was the greatest genius of them all" and yet few hold up Morphy as possibly the best of all time.


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