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Fischer vs. Kasparov


  • 3 years ago · #541

    AndyClifton

    raul72 wrote:

     Fablehaft, you got a minute---i'm gonna set you straight. Its as obvious as the nose on your face that you know absolutely nothing about chess history. 


    Oh yeah?  Well it just so happens that fabelhaft has leprosy and his nose fell off.  So there!

  • 3 years ago · #542

    Arctor

    raul72 wrote:
    Arctor wrote:
    raul72 wrote:
    Arctor wrote:
    raul72 wrote:
    fabelhaft wrote:

    If Keres drew his games against Petrosian and Geller because he had been ordered to do so one could wonder why he wasn't ordered to draw against Tal or Korchnoi. Tal was the favourite before Curacao, the year before he had won Bled easily, ahead of Fischer, Keres, Geller and Petrosian. The games between Geller, Keres and Petrosian were short draws then too. But Tal and Fischer lost their first games in Curacao and were never really in contention, Tal least of the two after falling ill.

    Keres himself stated in 1964 that he hadn't been involved in any collusion. He had previously said that his strategy was to avoid risks as much as possible because he had been taking too many in 1959, when he went 3-1 against the winning Tal and was leading at half time but lost too many games against other players. What Keres said obviously doesn't have to be the truth though.


     Fablehaft, you got a minute---i'm gonna set you straight. Its as obvious as the nose on your face that you know absolutely nothing about chess history. Sometimes the  Russian State called the shots and sometimes the players called the shots. In Curacao---the players called the shots. The Russian State was quite convinced that a Russian would emerge to challenge Botvinnik. After all, The Russians had five of the best players in the world playing in the tournament---Petrosian, Keres, Geller, Tal, and Korchnoi. America had two---Fischer and Benko. So the chess leaders in Russia kept their hands off and let the players make the deals. Petrosian, Keres, and Geller made a deal whereby they would play easy, quick draws amongst themselves and retire to the beach for sun and relaxation. It worked perfectly as the came in 1,2,3 in the tournament. Korchnoi wanted in but the trio said nyet!  Why dont you know this stuff Fablehaft---its in a hundred different books!

    As for Tal, he might have went along if ordered to do so by the State but I dont think he is going to agree to a bunch of draws with players he thought he could beat. Perhaps he had more integrity than Keres, Petrosian or Geller. Fischer knew Tal wasn't in on the fix. Fischer  was the only player to visit Tal in the hospital.

     

    How about this Fablehaft---if you are going to defend the Russians so vigorously pull your head out and  read a book about the Russians.


     Which is likely a myth created by people like you of course. And I wonder how much Fischer's visit had to do with Bisguier being a good friend of Tal's...


     Arctor---you are an ignorant buffoon ---I will give you the same advice as I gave your buddy Fablehaft. If you are going to talk history on this site---learn history.  I feel sorry for someone as dumb as you are and whats really pathetic is---you think you know chess.


    Blub blub blub, keep those lips flapping maybe something sensible will come out eventually.

      Being such a distinguished historian, why don't you enlighten us? Was Bisguier Tal's good buddy or wasn't he? Was Bisguier Fischer's second in Curacao or wasn't he? Can you provide an earlier source than Fischer's biographer Frank Brady for the claim that Fischer was the only participant at Curacao that visited Tal in the hospital? (a claim that funnily enough Tal never mentions in his autobiography)


     Tell me arctor---Do you want me to prove to you the earth is not flat ? Do you ever read a book about anything ? Please stay away from me---every time you talk to me my brain cells start dying. Go away please! You are absolutely  and positively the dumbest guy to ever post on this site.

    How about this---be pen pals with fablehaft---you guys are about on par with one another.


    Gubble gubble gubble. Nice way to sidestep the questions. Come on, educate me, show me the error of my ways. Or are you as clueless as I suspect?

    Tal and Bisguier were good friends (as were Bisguier and Keres among others) that's a fact. Bisguier was Fischer's second in Curacao...that's also a fact. Another fact...Fischer had previously acted with animosity towards Tal in personal correspondance (something Tal couldn't have known obviously and thus wouldn't have impacted his side of the relationship). So tell me, what changed? How did Fischer go from wanting to kill Tal to being so concerned that he was (allegedley) the only player to visit him in hospital?

  • 3 years ago · #543

    AndyClifton

    It's the Night of the Long Quotes. Tongue out

  • 3 years ago · #544

    fabelhaft

    Maybe people that suspect that they are wrong about something feel a bigger need to repeatedly praise their own superior knowledge :-)

  • 3 years ago · #545

    Steve212000

    fabelhaft wrote:

    Maybe people that suspect that they are wrong about something feel a bigger need to repeatedly praise their own superior knowledge :-)


    I'm a firm believer in:"If you can't daazzel them with your brilliance,baffle them with your bullshit."Laughing

  • 3 years ago · #546

    checkmateibeatu

    raul72, are you saying that there is proof that Fischer was the best ever? I can't help but remember another pro-Fischer I previously encountered when I see this.
  • 3 years ago · #547

    checkmateibeatu

    +1.
  • 3 years ago · #548

    PrawnEatsPrawn

  • 3 years ago · #549

    AndyClifton

    paul211 wrote:

    Some of the recent posts have vilipending( offensive or uncouth) replies.

    Can we all use, including me as I did not always in the past,use civilized, respectfull, courteous and polite words to express our opinion.


    Doesn't sound all that fun though...

  • 3 years ago · #550

    raul72

    checkmateibeatu wrote:
    raul72, are you saying that there is proof that Fischer was the best ever? I can't help but remember another pro-Fischer I previously encountered when I see this.

     Checkmatebeautu---are you 12 yrs old ? How could anyone prove that ?  This is why I ignore your post---you talk like a child. And your polls are childish and meaningless.

  • 3 years ago · #551

    raul72

    Arctor wrote:
    raul72 wrote:
    Arctor wrote:
    raul72 wrote:
    Arctor wrote:
    raul72 wrote:
    fabelhaft wrote:

    If Keres drew his games against Petrosian and Geller because he had been ordered to do so one could wonder why he wasn't ordered to draw against Tal or Korchnoi. Tal was the favourite before Curacao, the year before he had won Bled easily, ahead of Fischer, Keres, Geller and Petrosian. The games between Geller, Keres and Petrosian were short draws then too. But Tal and Fischer lost their first games in Curacao and were never really in contention, Tal least of the two after falling ill.

    Keres himself stated in 1964 that he hadn't been involved in any collusion. He had previously said that his strategy was to avoid risks as much as possible because he had been taking too many in 1959, when he went 3-1 against the winning Tal and was leading at half time but lost too many games against other players. What Keres said obviously doesn't have to be the truth though.


     Fablehaft, you got a minute---i'm gonna set you straight. Its as obvious as the nose on your face that you know absolutely nothing about chess history. Sometimes the  Russian State called the shots and sometimes the players called the shots. In Curacao---the players called the shots. The Russian State was quite convinced that a Russian would emerge to challenge Botvinnik. After all, The Russians had five of the best players in the world playing in the tournament---Petrosian, Keres, Geller, Tal, and Korchnoi. America had two---Fischer and Benko. So the chess leaders in Russia kept their hands off and let the players make the deals. Petrosian, Keres, and Geller made a deal whereby they would play easy, quick draws amongst themselves and retire to the beach for sun and relaxation. It worked perfectly as the came in 1,2,3 in the tournament. Korchnoi wanted in but the trio said nyet!  Why dont you know this stuff Fablehaft---its in a hundred different books!

    As for Tal, he might have went along if ordered to do so by the State but I dont think he is going to agree to a bunch of draws with players he thought he could beat. Perhaps he had more integrity than Keres, Petrosian or Geller. Fischer knew Tal wasn't in on the fix. Fischer  was the only player to visit Tal in the hospital.

     

    How about this Fablehaft---if you are going to defend the Russians so vigorously pull your head out and  read a book about the Russians.


     Which is likely a myth created by people like you of course. And I wonder how much Fischer's visit had to do with Bisguier being a good friend of Tal's...


     Arctor---you are an ignorant buffoon ---I will give you the same advice as I gave your buddy Fablehaft. If you are going to talk history on this site---learn history.  I feel sorry for someone as dumb as you are and whats really pathetic is---you think you know chess.


    Blub blub blub, keep those lips flapping maybe something sensible will come out eventually.

      Being such a distinguished historian, why don't you enlighten us? Was Bisguier Tal's good buddy or wasn't he? Was Bisguier Fischer's second in Curacao or wasn't he? Can you provide an earlier source than Fischer's biographer Frank Brady for the claim that Fischer was the only participant at Curacao that visited Tal in the hospital? (a claim that funnily enough Tal never mentions in his autobiography)


     Tell me arctor---Do you want me to prove to you the earth is not flat ? Do you ever read a book about anything ? Please stay away from me---every time you talk to me my brain cells start dying. Go away please! You are absolutely  and positively the dumbest guy to ever post on this site.

    How about this---be pen pals with fablehaft---you guys are about on par with one another.


    Gubble gubble gubble. Nice way to sidestep the questions. Come on, educate me, show me the error of my ways. Or are you as clueless as I suspect?

    Tal and Bisguier were good friends (as were Bisguier and Keres among others) that's a fact. Bisguier was Fischer's second in Curacao...that's also a fact. Another fact...Fischer had previously acted with animosity towards Tal in personal correspondance (something Tal couldn't have known obviously and thus wouldn't have impacted his side of the relationship). So tell me, what changed? How did Fischer go from wanting to kill Tal to being so concerned that he was (allegedley) the only player to visit him in hospital?


     Arctor you say  " Bisguier was Fischer's second in Curacao...that's also a fact." Well your last statement is only half true---Bisguier was also Benko's second at Curacao. This led to the famous incident where Benko punched Fischer. Fischer could be an asshole to many people and get away with it but he could push Benko only so far and Benko would bitch slap Bobby. When Bobby tried to monopolize Bisguier's time---Benko blew.

    I've always read in books and magazines and the internet that Bobby was the only player to visit Tal in the hospital. This is over the course of many, many years. I've never read anything to the contrary. If you have, please post it so we can all be educated. I can tell you right now---it aint gonna happen. I know my chess history and you dont !

    Set me straight on something arctor---what does Bisguier's friendship with Keres and Tal have to do with the price of tea in China ? You keep bringing it up---You hint that maybe Fischer visited Tal because Bisguier liked tal. You know absolutely nothing, nada, zip about Fischer. I sit here asking myself why am I talking to you---its a waste of time as I'm never gonna learn anything from you !  Please, in your next post give me some pertinent information about our beloved game.

  • 3 years ago · #552

    Arctor

      For someone who knows his chess history you're wrong quite a bit. Because the USCF couldn't afford to send two seconds, Bisguier was officially Fischer's second and only Fischer's second. There was an informal agreement that Bisguier would help Benko too. Fischer, like the ass he was, refused to allow Benko to use Bisguier and even tried to get Benko thrown out of the tournament for trying.

    And yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting, that Fischer would have needed persuading by someone (most likely Bisguier) to visit Tal (a man Fischer had previously hated enough to wish physical harm on him).

    As for Fischer being the only player to visit, it's worth considering where exactly that claim originated from. The earliest source I can find is Frank Brady. What in the hell does Frank Brady know about the movements of all the other players at Curacao?

    Oh, and one more thing.... [Moderated – watch your language]

  • 3 years ago · #553

    checkmateibeatu

    You asked Arctor whether you need to prove to him that the Earth isn't flat.
  • 3 years ago · #554

    AndyClifton

    The way some of these quotes are stacking up now:

  • 3 years ago · #555

    beardogjones

    Whats is little known is that Fischer and Kasparov are the same person.

    Have you ever seen them in the same room together? How do you think kasparov was able to beat Karpov and others?  This also explains why Kasparov

    and Fischer never met over the board and why Fischer was too busy in

    his late years to be sane.   Kasparov's retirement also corresponds very closely

    to Fischer's death. And they both favor the Najdorf.  It also explains

    why Carlsen and Nakamura have been so secretive about their work with

    Kasparov.

  • 3 years ago · #556

    AndyClifton

    The one bit of evidence that might've served to disprove your theory has since been determined to have been a hoax!:

  • 3 years ago · #557

    beardogjones

    Furthermore this also explains Kasparov's quasi-Jewish roots and

    his psychological breakdown versus Deep Blue. Kasparov's interest

    in politics also parallels Fischer but is much less extreme.

  • 3 years ago · #558

    quequeg

    beardogjones wrote:

    Whats is little known is that Fischer and Kasparov are the same person.

    Have you ever seen them in the same room together? How do you think kasparov was able to beat Karpov and others?  This also explains why Kasparov

    and Fischer never met over the board and why Fischer was too busy in

    his late years to be sane.   Kasparov's retirement also corresponds very closely

    to Fischer's death. And they both favor the Najdorf.  It also explains

    why Carlsen and Nakamura have been so secretive about their work with

    Kasparov.


     dont be silly. It is widely accepted that Fischer was Capablanca reincarnated while Capablance ( real name John Whitehead) was the reincarnation of a certain P Morphy.  Just check their birth / death dates 

  • 3 years ago · #559

    raul72

    Arctor wrote:

      For someone who knows his chess history you're wrong quite a bit. Because the USCF couldn't afford to send two seconds, Bisguier was officially Fischer's second and only Fischer's second. There was an informal agreement that Bisguier would help Benko too. Fischer, like the ass he was, refused to allow Benko to use Bisguier and even tried to get Benko thrown out of the tournament for trying.

    And yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting, that Fischer would have needed persuading by someone (most likely Bisguier) to visit Tal (a man Fischer had previously hated enough to wish physical harm on him).

    As for Fischer being the only player to visit, it's worth considering where exactly that claim originated from. The earliest source I can find is Frank Brady. What in the hell does Frank Brady know about the movements of all the other players at Curacao?

    Oh, and one more thing.... [Moderated – watch your language]


     p-127 Pal Benko---my life, my games, my compositions.

     

     "I started well in Cura􀃶ao, so every game had great significance for me. In the

     

    fifth round, I adjourned against Petrosian with excellent winning chances. Naturally,I hunted Fischer and Bisguier down and asked them to help me analyze the position. Why wouldn't I? Bobby was my friend and we always analyzed together at tournaments, while Bisguier was hired for this very purpose ! However, when Bobby realized that I intended to make use of "his" second, he said, "I forbid it! " I was outraged. "How can you forbid this? It's in the agreement. " It turns out that Kasper talked to both of us separately. Apparently, he didn't tell Fischer that we had to share Bisguier.

      

    In fact, when I discussed this with Bobby sometime later, he told me that he would never have accepted such a deal. During our face-off, though, I was sure Bobby knew what was going on. Unfortunately, in the heat of the moment, with both of us convinced that we were in the right, things got ugly. Bobby got insulting and upset, I got more and more angry, Bobby goaded me, and bang, I hit him.

    Looking back on this mix-up, I'm ashamed of the whole affair. In fact, I became so guilt-ridden for punching someone I genuinely cared about that I could never play well against him again."

     Fischer tried to get Benko out of the tournament for punching him.  I think you are wrong about the way Bobby felt about Tal. I think he liked Tal. Do you honestly believe someone could persuade Fischer to visit someone in the hospital that Bobby hated???  Are you for real Arctor??? 

     

  • 3 years ago · #560

    bigpoison

    Wow!  Thanks for that submission Raul.

    I'm curious about the punch.  Where did the blow land?  Was there blood?  What did Fischer do after he got punched?


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