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Some of the recent posts have vilipending( offensive or uncouth) replies.
Can we all use, including me as I did not always in the past,use civilized, respectfull, courteous and polite words to express our opinion.
Doesn't sound all that fun though...
Checkmatebeautu---are you 12 yrs old ? How could anyone prove that ? This is why I ignore your post---you talk like a child. And your polls are childish and meaningless.
If Keres drew his games against Petrosian and Geller because he had been ordered to do so one could wonder why he wasn't ordered to draw against Tal or Korchnoi. Tal was the favourite before Curacao, the year before he had won Bled easily, ahead of Fischer, Keres, Geller and Petrosian. The games between Geller, Keres and Petrosian were short draws then too. But Tal and Fischer lost their first games in Curacao and were never really in contention, Tal least of the two after falling ill.
Keres himself stated in 1964 that he hadn't been involved in any collusion. He had previously said that his strategy was to avoid risks as much as possible because he had been taking too many in 1959, when he went 3-1 against the winning Tal and was leading at half time but lost too many games against other players. What Keres said obviously doesn't have to be the truth though.
Fablehaft, you got a minute---i'm gonna set you straight. Its as obvious as the nose on your face that you know absolutely nothing about chess history. Sometimes the Russian State called the shots and sometimes the players called the shots. In Curacao---the players called the shots. The Russian State was quite convinced that a Russian would emerge to challenge Botvinnik. After all, The Russians had five of the best players in the world playing in the tournament---Petrosian, Keres, Geller, Tal, and Korchnoi. America had two---Fischer and Benko. So the chess leaders in Russia kept their hands off and let the players make the deals. Petrosian, Keres, and Geller made a deal whereby they would play easy, quick draws amongst themselves and retire to the beach for sun and relaxation. It worked perfectly as the came in 1,2,3 in the tournament. Korchnoi wanted in but the trio said nyet! Why dont you know this stuff Fablehaft---its in a hundred different books!
As for Tal, he might have went along if ordered to do so by the State but I dont think he is going to agree to a bunch of draws with players he thought he could beat. Perhaps he had more integrity than Keres, Petrosian or Geller. Fischer knew Tal wasn't in on the fix. Fischer was the only player to visit Tal in the hospital.
How about this Fablehaft---if you are going to defend the Russians so vigorously pull your head out and read a book about the Russians.
Which is likely a myth created by people like you of course. And I wonder how much Fischer's visit had to do with Bisguier being a good friend of Tal's...
Arctor---you are an ignorant buffoon ---I will give you the same advice as I gave your buddy Fablehaft. If you are going to talk history on this site---learn history. I feel sorry for someone as dumb as you are and whats really pathetic is---you think you know chess.
Blub blub blub, keep those lips flapping maybe something sensible will come out eventually.
Being such a distinguished historian, why don't you enlighten us? Was Bisguier Tal's good buddy or wasn't he? Was Bisguier Fischer's second in Curacao or wasn't he? Can you provide an earlier source than Fischer's biographer Frank Brady for the claim that Fischer was the only participant at Curacao that visited Tal in the hospital? (a claim that funnily enough Tal never mentions in his autobiography)
Tell me arctor---Do you want me to prove to you the earth is not flat ? Do you ever read a book about anything ? Please stay away from me---every time you talk to me my brain cells start dying. Go away please! You are absolutely and positively the dumbest guy to ever post on this site.
How about this---be pen pals with fablehaft---you guys are about on par with one another.
Gubble gubble gubble. Nice way to sidestep the questions. Come on, educate me, show me the error of my ways. Or are you as clueless as I suspect?
Tal and Bisguier were good friends (as were Bisguier and Keres among others) that's a fact. Bisguier was Fischer's second in Curacao...that's also a fact. Another fact...Fischer had previously acted with animosity towards Tal in personal correspondance (something Tal couldn't have known obviously and thus wouldn't have impacted his side of the relationship). So tell me, what changed? How did Fischer go from wanting to kill Tal to being so concerned that he was (allegedley) the only player to visit him in hospital?
Arctor you say " Bisguier was Fischer's second in Curacao...that's also a fact." Well your last statement is only half true---Bisguier was also Benko's second at Curacao. This led to the famous incident where Benko punched Fischer. Fischer could be an asshole to many people and get away with it but he could push Benko only so far and Benko would bitch slap Bobby. When Bobby tried to monopolize Bisguier's time---Benko blew.
I've always read in books and magazines and the internet that Bobby was the only player to visit Tal in the hospital. This is over the course of many, many years. I've never read anything to the contrary. If you have, please post it so we can all be educated. I can tell you right now---it aint gonna happen. I know my chess history and you dont !
Set me straight on something arctor---what does Bisguier's friendship with Keres and Tal have to do with the price of tea in China ? You keep bringing it up---You hint that maybe Fischer visited Tal because Bisguier liked tal. You know absolutely nothing, nada, zip about Fischer. I sit here asking myself why am I talking to you---its a waste of time as I'm never gonna learn anything from you ! Please, in your next post give me some pertinent information about our beloved game.
For someone who knows his chess history you're wrong quite a bit. Because the USCF couldn't afford to send two seconds, Bisguier was officially Fischer's second and only Fischer's second. There was an informal agreement that Bisguier would help Benko too. Fischer, like the ass he was, refused to allow Benko to use Bisguier and even tried to get Benko thrown out of the tournament for trying.
And yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting, that Fischer would have needed persuading by someone (most likely Bisguier) to visit Tal (a man Fischer had previously hated enough to wish physical harm on him).
As for Fischer being the only player to visit, it's worth considering where exactly that claim originated from. The earliest source I can find is Frank Brady. What in the hell does Frank Brady know about the movements of all the other players at Curacao?
Oh, and one more thing.... [Moderated – watch your language]
The way some of these quotes are stacking up now:
Whats is little known is that Fischer and Kasparov are the same person.
Have you ever seen them in the same room together? How do you think kasparov was able to beat Karpov and others? This also explains why Kasparov
and Fischer never met over the board and why Fischer was too busy in
his late years to be sane. Kasparov's retirement also corresponds very closely
to Fischer's death. And they both favor the Najdorf. It also explains
why Carlsen and Nakamura have been so secretive about their work with
The one bit of evidence that might've served to disprove your theory has since been determined to have been a hoax!:
Furthermore this also explains Kasparov's quasi-Jewish roots and
his psychological breakdown versus Deep Blue. Kasparov's interest
in politics also parallels Fischer but is much less extreme.
dont be silly. It is widely accepted that Fischer was Capablanca reincarnated while Capablance ( real name John Whitehead) was the reincarnation of a certain P Morphy. Just check their birth / death dates
p-127 Pal Benko---my life, my games, my compositions.
"I started well in Curaao, so every game had great significance for me. In the
fifth round, I adjourned against Petrosian with excellent winning chances. Naturally,I hunted Fischer and Bisguier down and asked them to help me analyze the position. Why wouldn't I? Bobby was my friend and we always analyzed together at tournaments, while Bisguier was hired for this very purpose ! However, when Bobby realized that I intended to make use of "his" second, he said, "I forbid it! " I was outraged. "How can you forbid this? It's in the agreement. " It turns out that Kasper talked to both of us separately. Apparently, he didn't tell Fischer that we had to share Bisguier.
In fact, when I discussed this with Bobby sometime later, he told me that he would never have accepted such a deal. During our face-off, though, I was sure Bobby knew what was going on. Unfortunately, in the heat of the moment, with both of us convinced that we were in the right, things got ugly. Bobby got insulting and upset, I got more and more angry, Bobby goaded me, and bang, I hit him.
Looking back on this mix-up, I'm ashamed of the whole affair. In fact, I became so guilt-ridden for punching someone I genuinely cared about that I could never play well against him again."
Fischer tried to get Benko out of the tournament for punching him. I think you are wrong about the way Bobby felt about Tal. I think he liked Tal. Do you honestly believe someone could persuade Fischer to visit someone in the hospital that Bobby hated??? Are you for real Arctor???
Wow! Thanks for that submission Raul.
I'm curious about the punch. Where did the blow land? Was there blood? What did Fischer do after he got punched?
What did Fischer do after Benko bitch-slapped him---
a. Scream like a bitch.
b. curl up in a fetal position on the bed.
c. piss his pants.
d. grabbed the phone and called his mom.
I want to thank everyone for the many card and letter---the winner is in for a treat so keep your answers pouring in.
when it comes to knowledge , theory and consistency in positional as well as tactical games kasparov is best no doubt but it is not enough to surpass bobby ficsher coz he is a chess genius who is beyond calculations ..... that is why all his move and tactics becomes a lesson for existing and generations to follow......i believe that even kasparov must have learned a lot from ficshers game, coz lot of peoples play chess but very few people make this game surprising and interesting with their wisdom.....fischer is one among them
They are so hard to compare. Fischer emerged at a time when there was not much serious chess in the U.S. He was really self made, and more or less invented the modern chess professional. He took preparation and study, in an era when there were no computers to help him, to a new level. And for the run up to his championship match he was as dominant a player as probably anyone since Morphy or Capablanca.
Unfortunately he went totally nuts, stopped competing, and when not in hiding became a ranting anti-semite, a holocaust denier, a pro-nazi hate monger, and general despicable human being. Although he may (may?) have been too mentally ill to help it, I find very little redeemable about his later life.
Kasparav on the other hand was the dominant player in the world for something like 20 years, and also has managed to have a productive life since his retirement from fully focusing on chess. He has been a policial activist, a coach, a speaker and writer, and generally transitioned into "citizen of the world" much better than Fischer ever did.
Who was better in absolute strength? Short of buidling a time machine its impossible to say, but my gut says Kasparov, if for no other reason than he lived in the era of computer training and was building on the accomplishments of Fischers generation. In terms of overall life accomplishments, I think Kasparov is the clear winner as well.
Bobby Fischer: he excelled in all aspects of the game
while Capablanca (real name John Whitehead)
Actually it's "Joseph Ralf Whitehead"...
They are so hard to compare.
Then why are they always being compared here?
Except showing up to play.
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