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Fischer's style...Tension?? What does it all mean?


  • 16 months ago · Quote · #1

    chessman1504

    Hello again,

    I don't intend on spamming, but I was curious, again. Arthur Bisguier said that Fischer needed tension, that he deplored positions without counterplay. Kramnik also said that Fischer played very vigorous chess, much like Kasparov would play later on. However, I've also heard that Fischer always sought clarity in his positions. My fundamental problem is that I'm not quite sure of how clear positions have tension. For example, when I think of clear positions, I think of Capablanca, and when I think of Capablanca, I don't think of tension. I wanted some examples from his games, if that's not too much to ask. This will be the LAST  question for today :)

    Thanks,

    Chessman1504

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #2

    waffllemaster

    As I understand it, tension just means setting problems for your opponent.  For example in a KID black is geared for a king side attack, both you and your opponent know it, but white has the problem to solve, how to deal with it correctly?

    Fischer exceeded in technical play.  So you can think of it as setting them technical problems to solve.  Bad structure, worse minor pieces, space, something like this.  Just because the problem is well defined doesn't mean it's any easier to solve.

    Capablanca was: "this endgame is better for me"
    Opponent "ORLY?"
    Capablanca: "yarly"
    And 20 moves later his opponent resigns.

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #3

    chessman1504

    waffllemaster wrote:

    As I understand it, tension just means setting problems for your opponent.  For example in a KID black is geared for a king side attack, both you and your opponent know it, but white has the problem to solve, how to deal with it correctly?

    Fischer exceeded in technical play.  So you can think of it as setting them technical problems to solve.  Bad structure, worse minor pieces, space, something like this.  Just because the problem is well defined doesn't mean it's any easier to solve.

    Capablanca was: "this endgame is better for me"
    Opponent "ORLY?"
    Capablanca: "yarly"
    And 20 moves later his opponent resigns.

    That's a helpful assessment :)

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #4

    DrCheckevertim

    waffllemaster wrote:

    Capablanca was: "this endgame is better for me"
    Opponent "ORLY?"
    Capablanca: "yarly"
    And 20 moves later his opponent resigns.

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #5

    chessman1504

    I have also heard that, according to Alexander Shashin, Fischer played more aggressively with the Black pieces. He also has the quote about Black having to play for a win instead of steering for equality. I would think that this is related to his striving for tension, for the winning chances.

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #6

    strngdrvnthng

    There is a story about Fischer playing on for several moves after there were only two kings left on the board. That's how much of a "fighter" he was. : )

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #7

    zBorris

    Tension is the result of fighting chess.

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #8

    strngdrvnthng

    Nice post, well done, Paul Gottlieb.

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #9

    trysts

    paulgottlieb wrote:

    "Tension" is a chess position has a special meaning. It doesn't just mean a position which is difficult or double-edged, although that can certainly be tense! There is tension is a position when the enemy units, particularly the pawns are in contact and attacking one another. At each turn both players need to consider whether they want to initiate a pawn exchange--and which pawns to exchange? Or they may want to push past, locking the formation and releasing the tension, or they may want to do neither--perhaps develop a piece and leave the tension in the position--or even increase it. Here are a couple of simple examples: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5. The d and e pawns mutually attack each other, creating tension. White can A) remove the tension with 3.exd, B) remove the tension by pushing past with 3.e5 or C)maintain the tension with 3.Nc3. And of course after 3.e5 Black usually creates new tension with 3...c5, while after 3.Nc3 Black has the choice between releasing the tension with 3...dxe4, maintaining the tension with 3...Nf6, or increasing the tension with 3...Bb4.

    Very often, releasing the tension, by initiating a pawn trade or piece trade is making a concession.  Positions full of tension are richer in winning--and losing possibilities

    Nice post! I'm quoting it just in caseWink

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #10

    AssauIt

    waffllemaster wrote:
    Capablanca was: "this endgame is better for me"

    Opponent "ORLY?"
    Capablanca: "yarly"
    And 20 moves later his opponent resigns.

    My favourite explaination of Capablanca's playstyle.

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #11

    AssauIt

    checkevrytim wrote:
    waffllemaster wrote:

    Capablanca was: "this endgame is better for me"
    Opponent "ORLY?"
    Capablanca: "yarly"
    And 20 moves later his opponent resigns.

     

    excellent

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #12

    ShaggyZ

    Paul nailed it.

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #13

    xxvalakixx

    "The turning point in my career came with the realization that Black should play to win instead of just steering for equality." (Fischer)

    Interesting quote. It will be interesting to find out what he means.

    In chess tension means a position, when pieces or pawns or both are attacking each other.


  • 16 months ago · Quote · #14

    zBorris

    paulgottlieb wrote:

    "Tension" is a chess position has a special meaning. It doesn't just mean a position which is difficult or double-edged, although that can certainly be tense! There is tension is a position when the enemy units, particularly the pawns are in contact and attacking one another.

    IMO Bisguier was not talking about paulgottlieb's definition of "tension":

     

    Arthur Bisguier interview:
    "Q. The charge has been leveled that he'd rather win an ugly game than draw or lose a beautiful one.

    A. Unfair charge! So would 99% of his competitors -- so long as the rewards are commensurate with the results scored and not the way points are achieved. Present company excepted of course.
    Q. What I'm getting at is his ferocious killer instinct which may be indicative of an overall sadistic personality.
    A. He only takes a draw when it's hopeless or when he's afraid he might get hurt in the position. When I analyzed with him he would say: "I kill him if I get this position." He deplores positions without counterplay. Even if he's in bad shape, there must be tension. This is the essence of his chess style. And that's the difference between him and Reshevsky. Sammy can defend a passive position."

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #15

    binblaster

    paulgottlieb wrote:

    "Tension" is a chess position has a special meaning. It doesn't just mean a position which is difficult or double-edged, although that can certainly be tense! There is tension is a position when the enemy units, particularly the pawns are in contact and attacking one another. At each turn both players need to consider whether they want to initiate a pawn exchange--and which pawns to exchange? Or they may want to push past, locking the formation and releasing the tension, or they may want to do neither--perhaps develop a piece and leave the tension in the position--or even increase it. Here are a couple of simple examples: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5. The d and e pawns mutually attack each other, creating tension. White can A) remove the tension with 3.exd, B) remove the tension by pushing past with 3.e5 or C)maintain the tension with 3.Nc3. And of course after 3.e5 Black usually creates new tension with 3...c5, while after 3.Nc3 Black has the choice between releasing the tension with 3...dxe4, maintaining the tension with 3...Nf6, or increasing the tension with 3...Bb4.

    Very often, releasing the tension, by initiating a pawn trade or piece trade is making a concession.  Positions full of tension are richer in winning--and losing possibilities

    What about D. Nd2 Frown

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #16

    ItsEoin

    strngdrvnthng wrote:

    There is a story about Fischer playing on for several moves after there were only two kings left on the board. That's how much of a "fighter" he was. : )

    That's not indicative of however tenacious Fischer may have been, that's just ridiculous. Sorry. I refuse to be impressed.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #17

    zBorris

    Since Paul Gottlieb didn't answer the question, then why hasn't anyone else bothered to explain it yet? I thought all the gurus on Chess.com love the games of Bobby Fischer. Smile

    Really, it would be great if someone could explain what GM Bisguier was talking about and how that mixes with the concept that Fischer sought clear positions.

    Arthur Bisguier said that Fischer needed tension, that he deplored positions without counterplay.

     

    "Q. What I'm getting at is Bobby's ferocious killer instinct which may be indicative of an overall sadistic personality.
    A. Bisguier - He only takes a draw when it's hopeless or when he's afraid he might get hurt in the position. When I analyzed with him he would say: 'I kill him if I get this position.'

    He deplores positions without counterplay. Even if he's in bad shape, there must be tension. This is the essence of his chess style. And that's the difference between him and Reshevsky. Sammy can defend a passive position."


  • 14 months ago · Quote · #18

    chessman1504

    This is an interesting quote from Fischer:

    "You've got to equalize first with Black before looking for something."

    This was what he told Robert Byrne when he felt Byrne was overextending himself with Black in playing for a win. Byrne has an interesting quote, considering that he lived in the era of Tigran Petrosian:

    "No one is harder to beat in an inferior positon, as those who have been up against him well know."


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