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Game Over: Kasparov v. The Machine

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3rd April 2009, 01:35am
#1
by goldendog
beertopia United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 9106

There is a film about the Kasparov-Deep Blue match that Garry lost. The premise is that IBM cheated. It's a fun watch for most any chess fan, and this is the full version. I had seen a much abbreviated compilation of clips before and this is much better. Eight parter so pour yourself some coffee.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKy2KUu48Bc

3rd April 2009, 01:56am
#2
by jacoblcl
Tacoma, WA United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 33

Thanks. I have a long, boring graveyard shift to kill tonight... Undecided

3rd April 2009, 03:35am
#3
by o-blade-o
Algiers Algeria
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 480

thank you ...

3rd April 2009, 11:11am
#4
by goldendog
beertopia United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 9106

bump...

3rd April 2009, 11:52am
#5
by richie_and_oprah
Marie Byrd Land United States
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 1861

Well, if IBM did not destroy the machine and all the pertinent info, there might be some concrete evidence to look at and debate! Smile

Quite the unscientific thing to do, destroying test results, and quite suspicious as well.

3rd April 2009, 03:26pm
#6
by CircleSquaredd
Wisconsin United States
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 165

This is a good documentary and an important moment in chess history. It's funny to think that by today's standards any decent home PC running Rybka 3 could make short work out of DB, it's makes you wonder what the tech be like in 20 years time

3rd April 2009, 04:02pm
#7
by CircleSquaredd
Wisconsin United States
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 165

I think chess is deep enough that computer don't really threaten it. Overall it probally lifts the game for us to a new and precise level never before possible.

3rd April 2009, 05:32pm
#8
by luis3141
Argentina
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 105

Thanks for the link.

3rd April 2009, 05:37pm
#9
by omgCHECKMATE
Sacramento United States
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 94

I have seen this at Kasparov played brilliantly

3rd April 2009, 10:44pm
#10
by LazyPig83
Aylesham (Kent) England
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 36

Although Garry lost to Deep Blue, Nigel Short compared it to a strongman losing a weight lifting competition to a fork lift truck.

3rd April 2009, 11:05pm
#11
by Doctorjosephthomas
Xaimen China
Member Since: Apr 2009
Member Points: 272

Takes the "magic" out of the game if you use these engines.  If you do the work yourself, or study with a program you can learn and get stronger.  Which are all of you doing? 

3rd April 2009, 11:12pm
#12
by jona004
Telford, UK England
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 439

Get the DVD. Mine came with a FREE copy of Fritz 6!

3rd April 2009, 11:39pm
#13
by LATITUDE
USA United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 612

Excellent ! What a subject! Right on my  alley.

Thank you!

31st May 2009, 10:02am
#14
by richie_and_oprah
Marie Byrd Land United States
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 1861
CircleSquaredd wrote:

I think chess is deep enough that computer don't really threaten it. Overall it probally lifts the game for us to a new and precise level never before possible.


It ruined chess.

 

It extinguished and mortally wounded the public notion that man was better than machine.  Because of Kasparov's loss, revenue dried up, and large companies were no longer interested in underwriting chess.

Fact.

It was the single worst thing that has happened to chess.  Ever.

 

Chess was long considered a barometer for peak human intelligence and the Kasparov/Deep Blue event changed all that, and with thoses windds of change, the money went away to never return.

31st May 2009, 10:39am
#15
by erikseguin
Dorval Canada
Member Since: May 2009
Member Points: 16

Really?

31st May 2009, 02:03pm
#16
by richie_and_oprah
Marie Byrd Land United States
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 1861

Yes.

6th June 2009, 09:23pm
#17
by LATITUDE
USA United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 612

There are no curves in chess, therefore the machine will always win. 

Agreed?

Cool

6th June 2009, 09:39pm
#18
by WanderingWinder
United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 1109
richie_and_oprah wrote:
CircleSquaredd wrote:

I think chess is deep enough that computer don't really threaten it. Overall it probally lifts the game for us to a new and precise level never before possible.


It ruined chess.

 

It extinguished and mortally wounded the public notion that man was better than machine.  Because of Kasparov's loss, revenue dried up, and large companies were no longer interested in underwriting chess.

Fact.

It was the single worst thing that has happened to chess.  Ever.

 

Chess was long considered a barometer for peak human intelligence and the Kasparov/Deep Blue event changed all that, and with thoses windds of change, the money went away to never return.


That's not so much a fact as what I call a true opinion. But it is totally true. The situation isn't so bleak, however; I still have hope that some prodigy will come along to destroy the machines, a John Connor or chess for those with inclinations for completely self-inconsistent-and-unrealistic-but-nevertheless-rather-entertaining-science-fiction-film-franchises. Quite simply, I'm very confident that the computers can be beaten, as will probably be proven by the computers of five years in the future, at the very least. Furthermore, computers still lack the ability to think, which, in chess, seems to be less important than incredible calculation powers, but nevertheless important, and so there is some (incredibly miniscule) hope. And I actually think there's a halfway decent hope that in a million games, Rybka would lose one of them to world-class GMs. Halfway decent being somewhere around 25%. However, it seems that, at least for now, Humanity's best hope is to play human-enhanced (i.e. playing on teams, with books, analysis boards, maybe oehter computers) against computer, and to experiment with different time controls, as this can definitely be a huge boon to the human players, there generally being a range where the computers are best.

6th June 2009, 09:53pm
#19
by costelus
Romania
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 2457

About the original question (IBM cheating). It is extremely strange IBM never sold a chess program. I mean, you defeat the world champion and refuse to make money from this?? Just imagine how many would have bought a chess engine produced by IBM at that time. Even working on a general purpose computer, not on dedicated hardware like Deep Blue.

By the way: any chess program today knows absolutely nothing about chess. Things like "you need to break open the center with a pawn lever" or "you push your pawn to b4 to make a nice outpost for your knight on c5" are completely unknown to an engine. All they do is simply compute the best move, according to an evaluation function.

6th June 2009, 10:06pm
#20
by CircleSquaredd
Wisconsin United States
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 165

Computers haven't ruined chess because people don't play against them. That is like saying competitive running was ruined by the invention of the automobile. Computers have majorly progressed our understanding of the game, pros use them for home prep to test out the soundness of their ideas or to analyze their games for mistakes. Its wrong to anthropomorphize computers into "intelligent" beings. Calculators are better at math than us but nobody flouts at how smart they are.

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