Game Over: Kasparov v. The Machine

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3rd April 2009, 01:35am
#1
by goldendog
beertopia United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 2400

There is a film about the Kasparov-Deep Blue match that Garry lost. The premise is that IBM cheated. It's a fun watch for most any chess fan, and this is the full version. I had seen a much abbreviated compilation of clips before and this is much better. Eight parter so pour yourself some coffee.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKy2KUu48Bc

3rd April 2009, 01:56am
#2
by jacoblcl
Tacoma, WA United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 33

Thanks. I have a long, boring graveyard shift to kill tonight... Undecided

3rd April 2009, 03:35am
#3
by o-blade-o
Algiers Algeria
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 474

thank you ...

3rd April 2009, 11:11am
#4
by goldendog
beertopia United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 2400

bump...

3rd April 2009, 11:43am
#5
by Gonnosuke
Southern California Germany
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 2592

Thanks for the link.  Even years after the match, it was obvious that Kasparov was deeply unsettled by the event.  You could see on his face when he revisited the hotel and event site that he never really came to terms with his loss.

As for the accusations that IBM cheated, I didn't see any concrete evidence for it.  Deep Blue didn't conform to Kasparov's expectations of how a computer should play but that proves nothing.  That said, the IBM team was clearly guilty of unsporting behavior.  The psychological games, the refusal to hand over the logs after promising to do so and most egregiously of all - the refusal to grant Kasparov's request for a rematch -- all of those things cast IBM in a very bad light.  Kasparov never saw the dagger coming....

3rd April 2009, 11:52am
#6
by richie_and_oprah
Marie Byrd Land International
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 1861

Well, if IBM did not destroy the machine and all the pertinent info, there might be some concrete evidence to look at and debate! Smile

Quite the unscientific thing to do, destroying test results, and quite suspicious as well.

3rd April 2009, 12:17pm
#7
by Gonnosuke
Southern California Germany
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 2592

They didn't destroy the machine.  As pointed out in the film, there were two -- one is at the Smithsonian and the other was shown to be at an IBM data center.  They dismantled the machine when the match was over to ship it back "home".  They also posted the log files on the internet at a later date.  A Google search will locate them.

3rd April 2009, 03:26pm
#8
by CircleSquaredd
Wisconsin United States
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 162

This is a good documentary and an important moment in chess history. It's funny to think that by today's standards any decent home PC running Rybka 3 could make short work out of DB, it's makes you wonder what the tech be like in 20 years time

3rd April 2009, 03:51pm
#9
by Catalyst_Kh
Kharkov Ukraine
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 1367

That thing ruined chess mystery forever. Now engines with databases can answer on any question, can show all possible combinations and their refutations everywhere in any position. In complex Tal games Fritz 11 needs only several minutes to calculate all to the refutations or to find there is none. In past times that was great mystery and magic, nobody know for sure, people was disputing frenzy about what is better and who is right, analyzing GM games for monthes and even after years finding some new lines and combinations in it. Almost nobody could make exact and presice evaluations, so there was almost infinite breadth of views and hundreds of uncovered chess secrets. That time expired forever, very sad.

 

So, in 20 years there will be nothing new, only more deep and wide opening and games bases and new books, mentor courses and etc. Maybe people will invent some new ways to entertain with chess, like there is now vote chess for example or like blindfold simuls.

 

The problem with machine was not in the tech power, machine was more than enough fast to win Kasparov even in 1996, the problem was in playing algorithms and evaluations errors, like that one error witch lead comp to lost 2nd game in 1996 match. When the crew fixed up all mistakes and made better strategical algorythms machines became unbeatable and after some imrovements they came up with deep fritz and deep rybka, that unbeatable even at simple home computer, because unbeatable is playing algorythm, not the calculating power of computer. Botvinnik know that from the start when he was trying to create such algorythms in 1980xx years, he was sured there is not need very much calculating power for that, so computers of 1990 years can easly play as GMs if they had rybka. So now imagine that was so, and after 1990 year we now 19 years ahead - what did changed? :) Now you may get the point.

3rd April 2009, 04:02pm
#10
by CircleSquaredd
Wisconsin United States
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 162

I think chess is deep enough that computer don't really threaten it. Overall it probally lifts the game for us to a new and precise level never before possible.

3rd April 2009, 05:32pm
#11
by luis3141
Argentina
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 104

Thanks for the link.

3rd April 2009, 05:37pm
#12
by omgCHECKMATE
Sacramento United States
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 90

I have seen this at Kasparov played brilliantly

3rd April 2009, 06:35pm
#13
by Catalyst_Kh
Kharkov Ukraine
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 1367

Looked the movie just now, big thanks for the link, that was very interesting. The next thing i want to do is to find those games with good annotation. I saw only 1996 match games with complete commentary, and saw none of 1997. If someone already knew the links i need i will be very thankful for that.

3rd April 2009, 08:42pm
#14
by Gonnosuke
Southern California Germany
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 2592
Catalyst_Kh wrote:

Looked the movie just now, big thanks for the link, that was very interesting. The next thing i want to do is to find those games with good annotation. I saw only 1996 match games with complete commentary, and saw none of 1997. If someone already knew the links i need i will be very thankful for that.


Here you go:

http://www.research.ibm.com/deepblue/watch/html/c.shtml

3rd April 2009, 10:44pm
#15
by LazyPig83
Aylesham (Kent) England
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 28

Although Garry lost to Deep Blue, Nigel Short compared it to a strongman losing a weight lifting competition to a fork lift truck.

3rd April 2009, 11:12pm
#16
by jona004
Telford, UK England
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 389

Get the DVD. Mine came with a FREE copy of Fritz 6!

3rd April 2009, 11:39pm
#17
by LATITUDE
USA United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 591

Excellent ! What a subject! Right on my  alley.

Thank you!

4th April 2009, 02:59pm
#18
by Catalyst_Kh
Kharkov Ukraine
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 1367

Thank you Gonnosuke!

 

Doctorjosephthomas, i didnt get what are you asking. I meant that chess lost all its charm overall, because now everybody can find out and knew everything, no more secrets and "wonders". That is useful of course, but loss is much more than benefits, that is imho of course.

31st May 2009, 10:02am
#19
by richie_and_oprah
Marie Byrd Land International
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 1861
CircleSquaredd wrote:

I think chess is deep enough that computer don't really threaten it. Overall it probally lifts the game for us to a new and precise level never before possible.


It ruined chess.

 

It extinguished and mortally wounded the public notion that man was better than machine.  Because of Kasparov's loss, revenue dried up, and large companies were no longer interested in underwriting chess.

Fact.

It was the single worst thing that has happened to chess.  Ever.

 

Chess was long considered a barometer for peak human intelligence and the Kasparov/Deep Blue event changed all that, and with thoses windds of change, the money went away to never return.

31st May 2009, 10:39am
#20
by erikseguin
Dorval Canada
Member Since: May 2009
Member Points: 12

Really?

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