Greed and Chess

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16th February 2009, 12:04pm
#1
by Vance917
North Potomac, Maryland United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 1151

Is greed good or bad?  Certainly greed is good -- no, make that great -- when we are talking about the song with that name by Varga.  But what about on the chess board?  Every now and again one will find a posting that says how bad greed is on the chess board.  Invariably, the proof of this contention is a game in which one player (the greedy one) took what appeared to be a free piece, but it was a poison piece, and sprung a trap, thereby allowing the opponent to win.  Greed is bad.  QED.  But this is non sequitur logic.  Greed is defined by Wikipedia as:

Greed is the self-serving desire for the pursuit of money, wealth, power, food, or other possessions, especially when this denies the same goods to others.

 

It is not to be confused with being short-sighted, choosing immediate gratification over long-term benefit.  The party being denied is not yourself at a later time, but rather somebody else.  There is no notion of mortgaging the future.  What was proven is that short-sightedness is bad on the chess board.  The question of greed has not been addressed.  To address it properly, one would need to ask questions such as the following:

I beat this player seven times in a row, and now we are playing again.  I want to win again, but is that being greedy?  if I do win this game too, then will this player stop playing with me?

I do not have the answer to whether greed is good or bad.  I offer myself not as an expert on greed, but rather as one who has a modicum of knowledge of logic; at least enough to recognize the spurious arguments against greed.

17th February 2009, 04:25am
#2
by Streptomicin
Pozarevac Serbia
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 1807

Greed can be very bad.

17th February 2009, 04:44am
#3
by Drecon
Groningen Netherlands
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 224

There are two possible definitions of greed in chess. The first is the metagame greed, wanting to win at all costs (mating with sacrificing pieces, stuff like that). That one is good, because you get to win.

The second definition is ingame greed. You take a piece whenever you can, attack the king whenever you can. This kind of greed is bad because it can backfire easily.

17th February 2009, 05:11am
#4
by ChessMobb
Silver Spring MARYLAND United States
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 74

haha great post! Very Humorous made me laugh. Thanks

17th February 2009, 05:28am
#5
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 812

On the other hand a good sense of greed can alert you to unsound sacrifices. One example from my own games is:

17th February 2009, 08:28am
#6
by Vance917
North Potomac, Maryland United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 1151

Thank you -- but it seems that some of you read only the title of the post, and not the post itself.  We still seem to be confusing greed with stupidity.

17th February 2009, 08:44am
#7
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 812

Greed is pretty much part of stupidity - it is the process by which you stop thinking when there's a chance of you gaining. If you define greed as wanting to improve your position the debate unravels. Theres only an argument if greed means being materialistic in chess.

17th February 2009, 08:46am
#8
by Vance917
North Potomac, Maryland United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 1151
OMGdidIrealyjustsact wrote:

Greed is pretty much part of stupidity - it is the process by which you stop thinking when there's a chance of you gaining. If you define greed as wanting to improve your position the debate unravels. Theres only an argument if greed means being materialistic in chess.


Well said -- I would have to agree with you!

17th February 2009, 10:44am
#9
by Streptomicin
Pozarevac Serbia
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 1807

Does anyone realize that "greed is good" is a cheat code for WC3?

17th February 2009, 10:44am
#10
by Vance917
North Potomac, Maryland United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 1151

Pardon my ignorance, but what does that mean?

17th February 2009, 10:48am
#11
by Streptomicin
Pozarevac Serbia
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 1807

Warcraft 3, the game?

17th February 2009, 10:50am
#12
by Vance917
North Potomac, Maryland United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 1151

I see.  Thank you for clarifying!

17th February 2009, 10:55am
#13
by Streptomicin
Pozarevac Serbia
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 1807

Sry, I am a gamer, so I just presume that everyone know what I am talking about.

17th February 2009, 10:56am
#14
by Vance917
North Potomac, Maryland United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 1151

I'm a gamer too, but my game is soccer -- do you call it "nogoment"?  I know that is Croatian, but not sure if Serbian too.

17th February 2009, 11:02am
#15
by Streptomicin
Pozarevac Serbia
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 1807

LOL, you are like the first american that I know who like soccer. Nogomet is croatian, we say fudbal (pronaunce same as football). I on the other hand like NFL. We are doing it all wrong.

17th February 2009, 11:02am
#16
by Vance917
North Potomac, Maryland United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 1151

I like both!

17th February 2009, 11:03am
#17
by Streptomicin
Pozarevac Serbia
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 1807

Philadelphia fan?

17th February 2009, 11:04am
#18
by Vance917
North Potomac, Maryland United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 1151

I hate the damned Eagles!  Giants fan!  And I became a Cards fan when they knocked off the Eagles!

17th February 2009, 11:07am
#19
by Streptomicin
Pozarevac Serbia
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 1807

O M G, I am not talking to you anymore. And just when we get to know each other... I dont know who i hate more, G-man or Cards....

17th February 2009, 11:09am
#20
by Vance917
North Potomac, Maryland United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 1151

Well, we both like soccer and chess, right?

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