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Here is a picture of the worlds oldest pawn

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28th August 2009, 10:48pm
#1
by idosheepallnight
United States
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 3798

Actually back then it was called a Warder.

28th August 2009, 10:58pm
#2
by Dakota_Clark
Chicago United States
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 684

yea i dont believe that for a second....

28th August 2009, 11:04pm
#3
by PanaPawn
Montrose, CA United States
Member Since: Aug 2009
Member Points: 171

Those are perhaps Europe's oldest pieces, but there are older from the arab world. That is from the Isle of Lewis pieces that are estimated to have been made in the 10th or 11th century.

These pieces are a solid 300 years earlier.

It's not known if this is for chess or another game. If it is for chess, it is the oldest known piece being dated from around 465AD.

29th August 2009, 12:23am
#4
by kunduk
kolkata India
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 964

nice...!! but dont forget that chess had been invented in INDIA. & so, INDIA must have been having the oldest chess pieces..

29th August 2009, 12:39am
#5
by NM OmarCayenne
United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 12607
kunduk wrote:

nice...!! but dont forget that chess had been invented in INDIA. & so, INDIA must have been having the oldest chess pieces..


Unless you believe the Russians'/Soviets' claim...

29th August 2009, 12:39am
#6
by NM OmarCayenne
United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 12607

Anyway, he is one cool little dude.

29th August 2009, 01:01am
#7
by happyfanatic
United States
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 386

His helmet looks like a nightcap.  I can imagine this guy creeping around his house with a nightstick in the middle of the night because he thought he heard something.

29th August 2009, 12:28pm
#8
by ichabod801
Maryland United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 1187

I believe that's the bishop from the Lewis chess set, not the pawn. The pawn is more like a tombstone with a celtic knot on it.

9th February 2010, 09:41pm
#9
by Estragon
United States
Member Since: Jun 2009
Member Points: 4351

"around AD 465" seems a bit too precise, doesn't it.  If they could get the date that close, there would be some hard evidence backing it up.

 

If there isn't, the PR stunt theory sounds about right.

10th February 2010, 12:48am
#10
by Steinwitz
Oslo Norway
Member Since: Jan 2010
Member Points: 152

So many mistakes,.

The photo shows the piece we call the rook (tower, castle in other nations).

It's from the Lewis chessmen, of which a miraculously large number were found.

The staring eyes are interesting - we see them as being timid or scared, but it is thought that the pieces were deliberately given "fierce eyes".

In the link below you can see the full set, and you'll see that the pawn is quite different.

The chessmen have been dated and are believed to have been made in Trondheim, in Norway, where there have been similar finds. The descendants of the Vikings liked playing chess, as it appealed to their vision of laws and political rule (they were sophisticated lawmakers, the Vikings.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_chessmen

10th February 2010, 01:02am
#11
by Maradonna
Scotland
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 2566

Yeah, we have some of those pieces here in Edinburgh. Some good info here if your interested

http://www.nms.ac.uk/our_museums/national_museum/special_exhibitions/lewis_chessmen_tour.aspx

 

I like the shield biting fella.

10th February 2010, 01:36am
#12
by AfafBouardi
Austin United States
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 3240

Don't you think Scotland should give them back to Norway?

10th February 2010, 01:51am
#13
by Maradonna
Scotland
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 2566
AfafBouardi wrote:

Don't you think Scotland should give them back to Norway?


 I don't know the politics behind the pieces or how museums work. Is it a finders keepers kind of idea? The pieces were found on the Isle of Lewis - Scotland, so I don't know if that's significant. I'd be happy to share :)

10th February 2010, 01:52am
#14
by Elroch
Watford England
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 10114

The striking thing about the Isle of Lewis piece, is what a realistic sculpture it is. These days we only have half a horse and a stone tower that can really be identified! Was there a conscious choice to make the pieces more abstract, perhaps to reduce the link to war?

10th February 2010, 01:59am
#15
by Maradonna
Scotland
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 2566

I remember the hype when we got the stone of destiny back. Can't believe it was as long ago as that. So I'd understand the desire for people wanting to reclaim something.

http://www.aboutscotland.co.uk/stone/destiny.html

But I'm not even sure if the pieces were originally made in Norway either. Interesting question though. Might have a little look into. Could go up to the museum and ask some fella. it's only 20 minute walk away.

As an aside, I actually went to see then once. However, the place is all twisty and on five floors. I couldn't find them and had to leave for work. So I'll need to go back.

Did see Jackie Stewart's racing car thuogh - it was awesome!

10th February 2010, 02:09am
#16
by Steinwitz
Oslo Norway
Member Since: Jan 2010
Member Points: 152
AfafBouardi wrote:

Don't you think Scotland should give them back to Norway?


No. The pieces were found in the ground in Scotland, and were probably there for a long time before being found. For all we know, they were legitimately bought from the artisans in Norway, or exported from there, purchased in Scotland, and later buried in the ground by the owner, or lost.

Abslutely no problem with these being kept in Scotland, and just pleased they were found and preserved. Quite proper that the British Museum returned their pieces from the set to Scotland, though.

This is very different from those cases where foreign archeologists/historians go to another nation, purchase artifacts (or chip them lose from their mounts) and then transport them home for exhibition. The Elgin-marbles being a case in point.

10th February 2010, 02:24am
#17
by JG27Pyth
NYC United States
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 2720

What wonderful little sculptures the Lewis chess pieces are! I'd seen them a hundred times before but for some reason today I see them fresh. Must stay up till 5 am more often ;)

10th February 2010, 05:44am
#18
by DMX21x1
Scotland
Member Since: Oct 2009
Member Points: 688
AfafBouardi wrote:

Don't you think Scotland should give them back to Norway?


Hell no. My understanding of this is that they were left behind by Vikings.  They probably came to Scotland for some pillaging/plundering, so they're not getting them back on principle and can think themselves lucky that I'm not taking the matter any further. 

10th February 2010, 08:48am
#19
by Steinwitz
Oslo Norway
Member Since: Jan 2010
Member Points: 152
DMX21x1 wrote:
AfafBouardi wrote:

Don't you think Scotland should give them back to Norway?


Hell no. My understanding of this is that they were left behind by Vikings.  They probably came to Scotland for some pillaging/plundering, so they're not getting them back on principle and can think themselves lucky that I'm not taking the matter any further. 


Your understanding of this is quite flawed.

These chessmen are made in the 12th century, well after the Viking era ended, and when the Hebrides, Orkneys and other islands in the north were inhabited by Norsemen and Scots, all actively engaging in trading.

Norsemen had extensive trade going all the way to Constantinople, and it's assumed the game of chess made its way north by such a trade route. The pieces were given their Norse look, but also heavily influenced by the church, given the Bishops.

It's a lot more likely that it was a merchant who lost these, for some reason. Who knows, maybe even a shipwreck, and then trying to hide valuables to avoid them getting "salvaged."

But no one outside the British Isles is making any claim to the pieces, but the English did steal quite a few, and are unwilling to return them all to Scotland. I'd direct my "ire" in that direction, if I were you. I believe the British minister of Culture and Sports said the Scottish claim to the 60+ pieces in the British Museum was a lot of nonsense.

10th February 2010, 09:01am
#20
by RainbowRising
London United Kingdom
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 6518
DMX21x1 wrote:
AfafBouardi wrote:

Don't you think Scotland should give them back to Norway?


Hell no. My understanding of this is that they were left behind by Vikings.  They probably came to Scotland for some pillaging/plundering, so they're not getting them back on principle and can think themselves lucky that I'm not taking the matter any further. 


lol good

but lets get real here

chess was invented in Greece :D

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