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How does Magnus survive without opening prep???


  • 15 months ago · Quote · #1

    chessteenager

    I mean you would think someone like ivanchuk would beat Carlsen every time because of how sharp his opening preparation is but it turns out carlsens and ivanchuks record is +8 -2 =11 for Carlsen (on my database). When they say Carlsen doesnt know opening theory/ do preparation what does that mean? like no he doesnt know the 23 move of the sicilian dragon yugoslav deffered or what? How is Magnus surviving? Super Gm's should be able ot get an easy advantage out of the opening against him? Carlsen is amazing tactically and hes good at grinding out a won endgame.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #2

    Rnewms

    He plays unexpected opening moves that are either uncommon or have a weakness, but his opponents usually don't know what he is doing.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #3

    ViktorHNielsen

    He just do math. If he play the up-to-date openings, he'll have to remember 25 moves. After these 25 moves, he'll have around 25 moves to gain an advantage, before the game becomes unwinable (in average). If he plays openings with 15 moves theory, he'll have around 35 moves to outplay his opponents. And he has great middlegame and endgame techniques, so using the main lines doesn't give him anything.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #4

    orangeishblue

    Saying a GM doesn't have opening preparation is silliness. If he didn't he simply could not compete much less be the highest rated in the world.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #5

    chessteenager

    orangeishblue wrote:

    Saying a GM doesn't have opening preparation is silliness. If he didn't he simply could not compete much less be the highest rated in the world.

    He is known as one of the least prepared opening wise players of Super GM's. 

    The first two posts are ridicoulous. Carlsen's main weapons are the Ruy lopez closed which is a heavy body of sharp theory especially since he likes the Breyer and he plays the Sicilian Dragon which is ridicoulously sharp. 

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #6

    steve_bute

    Perhaps you meant the opening question to be "Why don't I know that Magnus does his opening prep quite well, finding opportunities to go into tricky lines that opponents aren't prepared for? Why do I NOT KNOW THIS?"

    Does this help clarify things for you?

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #7

    waffllemaster

    Magnus still prepares lines to play, I'm sure he does, just not super deep and narrow like only the najdorf and always out to move 30 for example.

    I think Kasparov said Carlsen can find the right plan very quickly.  Carlsen simply plays better chess through the middlegame and endgame phases so that's how he wins.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #8

    Kingpatzer

    It's known that Carlsen doesn't prepare openings deeply or broadly as his opponents. That does not mean he is not well prepared for the openings he plays. 

    It just means that instead of preparing 400 different lines in 20 different openings, he's preparing 100 different lines in 8 different openings -- but his prep is sufficient to cover all the eventualities of what his opponents will throw at him. And obviously he's confident that any novelties that might arise in the lines he's choosing aren't one's that will kill the line.  

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #9

    Defence4Gizchehs

    steve_bute wrote:

    Perhaps you meant the opening question to be "Why don't I know that Magnus does his opening prep quite well, finding opportunities to go into tricky lines that opponents aren't prepared for? Why do I NOT KNOW THIS?"

    Does this help clarify things for you?

    lolz, quoted Money Mouth

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #10

    ghostofmaroczy

    Hi chessteenager, You compared Ivanchuk and Carlsen.  Interesting choice.  Both of them play extremely wide repertoires.  In fact, they pretty much play everything, which makes them different from other elites.  Ivanchuk is not that much more prepared than Carlsen.  The distinction should be made that Carlsen seems to me to be more prepared with black than with white.  With white, Carlsen does not play the sharpest lines.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #11

    Ubik42

    When Carlsen states he does not put as much emphasis as his fellow GM's on openings prep, bear in mind this probably means he only spends 3-4 hours a day on openings, instead of 5-6, devoting the rest of his time to positional play, endings, tactics, etc.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #13

    steve_bute

    It's just so cute how y'all know the details of how Carlsen spends his quality time. Like you download his diary every morning.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #14

    Ubik42

    steve_bute wrote:

    It's just so cute how y'all know the details of how Carlsen spends his quality time. Like you download his diary every morning.

    http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7778

    "Carlsen agreed with the suggestion that studying openings occupied 80% of a player's time, provoking the following question:

    But… looking at your games you get the opposite impression! If you take the Tal Memorial, in the first four rounds you could have got 0/4 given the openings, but then you should have scored 3.5/4. You constantly outplayed your opponents…

    Probably that’s because I like the middlegame and endgame much more than the opening. I like when the game turns into a contest of ideas and not a battle between home analysis. But that, unfortunately, doesn’t happen often.

    That concerns you?

    To an extent, but what can I do!

    Work more on the opening, as the others do…

    I already work more on it than I want.

    But at the same time, as I understand it, you’re generally inferior to them?

    Yes. It’s no secret for anyone that my opening preparation is inferior to Anand’s and Kramnik’s and that of many others. They’ve got much more experience, prepared ideas… They’re great specialists in that! But I try to place my pieces correctly on the board, so the advantage won’t be so great that I lose immediately."

     

    Not exactly a diary, but it will do until the real thing comes along.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #16

    Elubas

    I guess this suggests Carlsen does study his fair share of openings, but he really, really, seems to keep it in the dark! Whereas guys like Anand or Giri or a ton of people may, in a post-game interview, say something like "Well I prepared this line for 8 hours about 14 years ago but unfortunately I forgot most of it," Carlsen will say something like "I felt like playing the King's Gambit today," and leave it at that. He never, ever seems to say anything more specific than that! He'll just say he had to play something and that's it.

    It almost makes me think he is trying to give the impression that he studies openings a lot less than he actually does, so that his opponents will assume Carlsen never has anything special waiting for them.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #17

    blueemu

    If I were Carlsen, I would be saving up my opening novelties for the WCC match anyway.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #18

    waffllemaster

    He obviously studies openings.  But also obvious is that he's not as good as his peers (or would be peers ;).

    If he were regularly outplaying people in the opening then there may be something to this secret preparation thing.  But secret or not he seems to deviate early, enter an equal (or not losing) position and rely on his middlegame and endgame skills to win a game.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #19

    steve_bute

    I too wouldn't downplay Karpov. He took some of Spassky's rough opening ideas, refined them, and won with them. That's not a sign of a player who neglects openings.

  • 15 months ago · Quote · #20

    blueemu

    waffllemaster wrote:

    If he were regularly outplaying people in the opening then there may be something to this secret preparation thing.  But secret or not he seems to deviate early...

    But if he were trying to keep his opening prep secret for the WCC match, he would have two choices:

    1) Play critical opening lines but choose a variation that he considers to be inferior instead of using his novelty.

    2) Avoid critical lines, so as to avoid entering situations where his novelty might get exposed prematurely.

    I feel that we don't have enough evidence to judge Carlsen's opening prep. Once he is in a match for the WCC... THEN we will know.


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