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is chess just a memory game basicly?

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #41


    there is an actual glitch.

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #42


    oh, you have 200 views, nevermind. I thought you had 2000

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #43


           The whole thing smells fishy. A person who doesn't pay, needs 2 accounts??  The 1st thread you started was, "Pervert"!!  Yeah, that sounds like a normal chess player.  The 1st two days your here, 200 people find you interesting enought to NOT be friends with you.

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #44


    I'm not a normal chess player? Damn... Hey, at least I placed it straight into Off Topic instead of posting it here to get more views followed by it eventually being moved (or possibly not). Anyway, think what you want, I really don't mind Smile


    P.S. Two thousand views in two days without abusing a glitch would be pretty epic!

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #45


           Its not a matter of what I think; You are who you say you are, but maybe not. You have 2 accounts, but maybe not. Your picture matches you, but maybe not. I think the way you started, doesn't give you any points in the credibility column.

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #46


    The Fischer defense isn't even that good.

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #47


    FirebrandX wrote:
    Somebodysson wrote:

    @firebrandx: yes, but, the third, visualization, involves problem solving and creativity. you're not just visualizing something that is there, or that you've seen. you're visualizing a creative solution to a problem. 

    There is no "yes, but".  You cannot create or problem-solve without having been trained in the 2nd aspect (pattern-recognition/intuition). In other words, visualization is useless if you've never had the experience learned from tactics and positional understanding. So again, the three concepts I listed are all that it boils down to. Visualization and pattern-recognition both cover the act of problem-solving together.

    its interesting what you write, and I have no ego investment in winning this one (I realize I've probably lost it already by arguing with firebrandx) and I recognize that compared to you my chess mind is that of a snake, or a rock, or some such thing...but having paid my respects to you, I'd like to argue a bit, maybe to learn, certainly not to win, more to learn.

    Just because visualization and pattern recognition are skills which must be prior doesn't make them equal to problem solving. Just because creative problem solving requires pattern recognition and experience (intuition) and visualization doesn't make them the same. As a thought experiment, can you imagine someone who has a large store of patterns, good visualization, and lots of experience and yet still can't come up with creative solutions as well as the enxt guy. How do you account for that? 

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #48


    Who says he cant come up with creative solutions as well as the next guy? You are making stuff up.

    Lots of stored patterns is probably the biggest single difference between patzers and masters.

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #49


    Here's my view: FirebrandX is right, as long as we're talking about actually playing a chess game.

    At the board, in a game, when there is a problem in front of you and you "calculate", what you are actually doing is visualising tactical lines based on -only- various combinations of patterns you know. The position will have features that suggest to you the patterns to use, and you visualise the candidate sequences and evaluate them.

    What could also happen is that the problem on the board cannot be resolved by the patterns you know. In which case, normally one would give up there and come back to analyse after the game, since it is impossible to tell whether there is actually any solution to the situation. If you try to creatively solve it on the spot, you may end up flagging yourself on a Sisyphean task, and so the practical course is to just move on. Creativity (?) as you seem to perceive it does not come into a practical chess game.

    When you're training outside of games (e.g. tactics exercises) though, of course creativity is used when you're acquainting yourself with new patterns. Chess problemists, solvers, and players in training all use creative problem solving skills; it just ceases to be a useful factor in an actual game when all that counts is the application of learnt patterns.

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #50


    Ubik42 wrote:

    Who says he cant come up with creative solutions as well as the next guy? You are making stuff up.

    Lots of stored patterns is probably the biggest single difference between patzers and masters.

    yes, I made it up as an explicit thought experiement to ask the question. If you and firebrandx are in agreement on this one, the most sane thing for me to do is learn from you guys; you both know a considerable amount more than me on this. thank you. 

    also, @Remellion: very interesting and instructive explanation. thanks. 

  • 7 months ago · Quote · #51


    so we agree that memory is defines a chess player

  • 7 months ago · Quote · #52


    superking, i'm already waiting for your next magnus thread.

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