AtIas wrote: What a communist socalist piece of trash you are.
What a communist socalist piece of trash you are.
I loved the book, but I think Ayn was a bit biased when portraying communist and socialist ideals as evils. The type of capitalism promoted in the text is unrealistic and just as absurd as anarchy. All of the economic structures have major flaws, and they all happen to be the same flaw: humanity. For my money, a capitalist structure that leans heavily toward socialism is most apt to accomodate for human error and avarice.
I must disagree wholeheartedly with you. Socialized health care, education, and other such crucially important things only serve to enhance an otherwise capitalist society. To say that you have either one or the other is ridiculous. Look at America today. There are social programs that can only be defined as socialistic. Are you of the mind that America is no longer a capitalist nation?
OK, Look... it costs a *lot* of money to run a site with 15,000+ users. It costs money for the domain, bandwith, hiring someone for maintenance, several people for content, someone for maintaining integrity, etc. etc.
Either the owner pays for all of this out of his own pockets (which quickly becomes impossible..) or he finds a way to commit to a service he believes very strongly in. There are a few ways to collect money for this sort of thing. Donations, subscriptions, advertisements, sponsorship, etc. We can pretty much rule out donations and sponsorship. Donations would never cover the costs, and the limitations of sponsorship and its effect on creative control and integrity, etc. etc. make it, pretty much, a last resort.
That leaves ads and subscriptions. Obviously Erik believes the site should be available to all players -- novices, experts, casual, full-time, and everything inbetween. To ensure the return on investment for each of the players who cant (or wont) pay for the subscription, he can use advertisements. For those who want the fancier and higher-quality content, there are subscriptions. If they are paying the subscription, there is no reason to make them look at ads. Their per-capita cost for using the site is taken care of. That said, why should Erik leave that out? Why not let people know? For most people, this is a perk. No one is trying to exploit anyone. It's simply business. Get off the soapbox, stop taking it personally.
That said, ethics are a perspective. There is no "yes" or "no" answer to your question, because it almost fundamentally subjective. Ethics are simply a concept that we use to meet an end. In this case it is nearly irellevant whether or not it is ethical. With over 15,000 active users, it is safe to say that people like what Erik is offering. In business, that is what matters. When it comes to business, ethics are no more than a political tool.
Personally, I agree with Erik's approach. If it were my site, I'd do it exactly the same way.
is this thread still alive, no one comment on it anymore (he's getting popularity(and abuse thrown at him)).
AtIas wrote: silentfilmstar13 wrote: AtIas wrote: What a communist socalist piece of trash you are. I loved the book, but I think Ayn was a bit biased when portraying communist and socialist ideals as evils. The type of capitalism promoted in the text is unrealistic and just as absurd as anarchy. All of the economic structures have major flaws, and they all happen to be the same flaw: humanity. For my money, a capitalist structure that leans heavily toward socialism is most apt to accomodate for human error and avarice. Rand biased? I'd say, yes. She was born in Russia and lived first hand the evils of socialism. The "type of capitalism promoted in the text" is pure, consensual laissez-faire capitalism. Unrealistic? What is the error in this type of capitalism? Humanity? Humanity can never be be a flaw. That is a vicious contradiction! How can humanity be a flaw in a system that is made for humanity!? What is wrong with greed, silent?
silentfilmstar13 wrote: AtIas wrote: What a communist socalist piece of trash you are. I loved the book, but I think Ayn was a bit biased when portraying communist and socialist ideals as evils. The type of capitalism promoted in the text is unrealistic and just as absurd as anarchy. All of the economic structures have major flaws, and they all happen to be the same flaw: humanity. For my money, a capitalist structure that leans heavily toward socialism is most apt to accomodate for human error and avarice.
Rand biased? I'd say, yes. She was born in Russia and lived first hand the evils of socialism. The "type of capitalism promoted in the text" is pure, consensual laissez-faire capitalism. Unrealistic? What is the error in this type of capitalism? Humanity? Humanity can never be be a flaw. That is a vicious contradiction! How can humanity be a flaw in a system that is made for humanity!?
What is wrong with greed, silent?
More accurately, she lived, first hand, the evils of Russian socialism. To equate Russian socialism to the socialist ideal(or anything close) is intellectually dishonest.
I misspoke in calling humanity the flaw in the systems. I have sent you a personal message which will hopefully make my stance a bit more clear.
I think most people play at work... so generally (with exception of night/weekend players and people employed by chess.com)
No... Not ethical.
paul211 wrote: Ellbert wrote: I was right this is better then watching T.V. I agree with with you, but was was right?? Can you elaborate on the post you are commenting?
Ellbert wrote: I was right this is better then watching T.V.
I was right this is better then watching T.V.
I agree with with you, but was was right?? Can you elaborate on the post you are commenting?
That the exchange of ideas on Chess.com is one of the reasons I joined. And I believe the exchange helps to make more focus Chess players.
silentfilmstar13 wrote: AtIas wrote: silentfilmstar13 wrote: AtIas wrote: What a communist socalist piece of trash you are. I loved the book, but I think Ayn was a bit biased when portraying communist and socialist ideals as evils. The type of capitalism promoted in the text is unrealistic and just as absurd as anarchy. All of the economic structures have major flaws, and they all happen to be the same flaw: humanity. For my money, a capitalist structure that leans heavily toward socialism is most apt to accomodate for human error and avarice. Rand biased? I'd say, yes. She was born in Russia and lived first hand the evils of socialism. The "type of capitalism promoted in the text" is pure, consensual laissez-faire capitalism. Unrealistic? What is the error in this type of capitalism? Humanity? Humanity can never be be a flaw. That is a vicious contradiction! How can humanity be a flaw in a system that is made for humanity!? What is wrong with greed, silent? More accurately, she lived, first hand, the evils of Russian socialism. To equate Russian socialism to the socialist ideal(or anything close) is intellectually dishonest. I misspoke in calling humanity the flaw in the systems. I have sent you a personal message which will hopefully make my stance a bit more clear.
silent you are 100% accurate that russian socialism wasn't ideal, but the problem is that socialism itself cannot only be an idea, it doesn't work in real life. It is somewhat naive to believe that "pure ideal socialism" can actually exist. Especialy in such a global economy as exists nowadays. Capitalism isn't perfect, but it is much more practical.
Olimar wrote: silentfilmstar13 wrote: AtIas wrote: silentfilmstar13 wrote: AtIas wrote: What a communist socalist piece of trash you are. I loved the book, but I think Ayn was a bit biased when portraying communist and socialist ideals as evils. The type of capitalism promoted in the text is unrealistic and just as absurd as anarchy. All of the economic structures have major flaws, and they all happen to be the same flaw: humanity. For my money, a capitalist structure that leans heavily toward socialism is most apt to accomodate for human error and avarice. Rand biased? I'd say, yes. She was born in Russia and lived first hand the evils of socialism. The "type of capitalism promoted in the text" is pure, consensual laissez-faire capitalism. Unrealistic? What is the error in this type of capitalism? Humanity? Humanity can never be be a flaw. That is a vicious contradiction! How can humanity be a flaw in a system that is made for humanity!? What is wrong with greed, silent? More accurately, she lived, first hand, the evils of Russian socialism. To equate Russian socialism to the socialist ideal(or anything close) is intellectually dishonest. I misspoke in calling humanity the flaw in the systems. I have sent you a personal message which will hopefully make my stance a bit more clear. silent you are 100% accurate that russian socialism wasn't ideal, but the problem is that socialism itself cannot only be an idea, it doesn't work in real life. It is somewhat naive to believe that "pure ideal socialism" can actually exist. Especialy in such a global economy as exists nowadays. Capitalism isn't perfect, but it is much more practical.
I read somewhere (and I'm probably misquoting) that under Capitalism 'Man exploits man' whereas under communism it's the other way round. Claiming that one might be better than the other might be true, at some times and in some places, but so far I don't believe that any system has proved to be the ideal way. One day...
agreed. No system has ever achieved its ideal form.. but that's why they call it "ideal" :)
My thoughts on this matter. For those of you who have chosen not to be a paying member. No one is forcing you to stay. You remind me of people that want protection by the military in our country. Yet you bemoan people that serve in that capacity. I say leave the country no one is forcing you to stay. This is a great chess website. If you are unwilling to pay for services that is ok. If you want to complain about it, you have not earned any creditability until you have payed your dues.
TiagoDevesa wrote: Does community service as a greeter count for anything ;) ??
Does community service as a greeter count for anything ;) ??
Did you manage to complete any greeter games yet?
MAD MAN!! hahaha!! gonna be the first person to 100 % whole-heartedly fully endorse what you're saying. If you want me to sign anything I will.... in blood!! roflolmao
well replied erik.
I dont have the time to read through all these posts, so I'll add my two cents in response to the INITIAL question.
I have been on this site for nearly a year now and even with my fast connection, this site has become UNBEARABLE in the last several months. BOGGED down by ads. Even though I have disabled FLASH and have adblocker progs running....still it's UNBEARABLE.
Greedy is indeed the correct term. It is less about chess and more about making $$$. You see it in every form of business, from the medicine companies adding addictive chemicals to their pain relief pills to get you coming back for more, to video game companies giving away FREE copies of ONLY THE FIRST FEW LEVELS of a video game and making you pay to get the rest, to wireless companies giving you a FREE PROMOTION period only to JACK up the prices once the promo period is over...and now you're LOCKED in for a year.
AT its best, this tactic is PURE MARKETING GENIUS. At its worst, it is preying upon the people for the companies own SLIMEY financial gains. Dangle the "free" bait, get the consumer HOOKED, and make them PAY to get unhooked.
Unfortunately it doesnt have to be this way. There are MANY 100% free sites with little or no ads. This site is not one of them. We must live with the the ads on this site if we wish to remain here. Think of them as commercials.
Cheater_1, I thought you were leaving.
So that means you reconsidered because deep inside, you love chess.com don't you?
You see, I like your inputs here, like that one about commercials slowing down your machine. If time is gold then it might mean something. Time is of essence, of some value. 'Wasted time' i mean is what we pay for in exchange to the lack of speed that you meant to say because chess.com is not an absolutely free site.
The thing is, this site had to start somewhere. People with concerted efforts worked very hard to create a wonderful haven for chess enthusiasts. The programming knowledge put into, plus their valued time and money, were not obtained for free.
I'm embarrassed to say this, but since i'm getting so much for free, i refrained on using tactics trainer and playing games (10 games so far). Frankly, I cannot afford to become a premium member, but as a form of gratitude I spent time contributing in some way like submitting chess quizzes for those who want to test their chess knowledge.
Forgive me for this giant rant. Cheater_1, I like your opinions though I disagree with some of them. If you can mention a site that's absolutely free and surpasses or even comes close to what chess.com can offer, please send me a note.
Cheater 1
By not reading the previous posts and putting yourself in front of a group of people who have discussed this ad nauseum, you simply appear ignorant. You say things that we have already discussed and in many ways proven your points invalid. If you think you're so smart I highly suggest using all your excess energy and intellect in creating free websites of your own rather than trashing an essentially free site over the personal issues you have with it. We're all trying to enjoy ourselves and emerse ourselves in this community and no one really wants to hear the crap. We all know there are ads and we all know why. Let's get over it. If you think it "should" (which is your problem) be free I highly suggest reading some of the previous posts to see all the very logical arguments against it.
Anthony
Everybody has different opinions for the same thing (although some opinions are just unbearable). I think this site is actually very good and sometimes the ads are interesting .
So thank you erik for bringing up chess.com. We appreciate it.
Hallo
After so many pages , i agree and clap DPG1232 :
despite different opinions I don,t saw opinions from Africa or Egypt
and I live in eu without possiblity of pay bullsh..
once again thanks "eric" for remind my self why I love play at this site
I know a lots of kids hom love to be able to play to but
may its about ethics them not have money for a comp.
think about the menber ship...
I do not know much about etics just:
my house doctor can not have sex with me by ethics...
love from ...
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