Is there any chance that a 1300 rated player can beat a 2700 rated player?

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Here's the thing: let's assume that every precise keystroke that would produce Shakespeare isn't impossible for a monkey to hit (it doesn't matter if this is true or not; the assumption is there just to make a point), and thus, all you need is a lot of time for everything to align and for it to actually happen.

For example, let's even take the above paragraph I wrote. I don't think there is some physical force that keeps the monkey from typing in "Here's, space, the, space, thing, colon." Even the colon could possibly be hit -- I don't think there is a physical force making it impossible to hit two keys at approximately the same time. It's just that there are so many other possibilities, so it would be very hard for all of these possible things to align themselves so precisely, and yet there is nothing that really restricts it as one possibility out of infinite.

I would most certainly think it would take more than a million years for the monkeys to type Shakespeare. Ten to the 350th power is probably closer to the mark -- but it doesn't matter. That will eventually happen in infinity, too. If you had that many years to wait, you could expect it to happen, and with infinity, you do have that.

Valentin: If you could randomize every single move of chess you played, then a chance will exist. For example, if I pick my first move randomly (I would use a random number generator, of course), then there is a 1 in 20 something chance I will randomly pick 1 e4, a good move, and so on.

Or let's say there are 100 possible strokes (Including those with shift) on a keyboard. Then there is a 1 in 100 chance that I will pick the first correct letter for Hamlet, and so on.

This might be a better way to put it because that would perfect the randomness. I think the monkeys are just mentioned because they make for a cute example

The sequence "How can I compare thee to a Summer's day" has the exact same probability to be churned out by a random character generator / monkey as every other sequence of equal length. This seems to be the key point Estragon and Valentin are missing. A particular sequence of 30 or so brilliant chess moves has the exact same probability to be churned out by a random move generator / 1300 as a particular sequence of absolute bunk.

The only thing is, the complete works of Shakespeare and a flawless chess game are both a ridiculously miniscule subset of the possible outcomes available.  

Nothing is impossible for politicians and statisticians.

In both cases, you just need some patience...

Tmb: Yeah, I think mentioning the random character (or move) generator purifies the randomness concept, making the point more clear. If a move is just randomly picked, then the correct move being picked has absolutely nothing to do with skill.

But, the moves of a 1300 are NOT random, he sits there, and makes 1300 plans, and plays 1300 moves. Remember, he's trying to win (that as the 1st post supposition). He's gonna be playing moves that look good to him, not rely on some hopelessly obscure chance that any random move may be good enough.

I agree, randomly, eventually, a generator are gonna find 50 great moves in a row. A 1300 never will.

and, one of my favourite sayings:

Statistics are like a bikini, what they reveal is interesting, what they conceal is vital. :)

rooperi: A plausible argument, but I still think the 1300 would eventually win.

I would argue that the fact that a 1300's moves are not random probably improves his chances -- weak players are quite capable of playing good moves for the wrong reasons.

He might never play some 2800 level sacrifice that the generator comes up with (in other words, he may never play perfectly), but on the other hand, he is more likely to take advantage of hanging mates in 1, or hanging pieces.

Of course, that's my assumption. I think with infinite time a 1300 would not only beat a 2700 eventually, but will probably do so at a higher rate than the random generator, although it will still be extremely low.

Again, if it's possible that a 2700 will hang mate in 1 (after seeing Petrosian's queen blunder and Kramnik's missing of mate in 1, I do think it's possible, although it will probably be even less likely against a lower rated player because lower rated players don't put as much pressure on you), and there is a chance that the 1300 will live long enough to see it and execute it, then it will happen, if we have infinite time to observe.

There you go!

Just to point out again, if the question was whether or not a 1300 could play a perfect game, I might agree with you rooperi that a 1300 would never do that.

However, such a thing is not required for the 1300 to win the game, as the 2700 might not play perfectly, either.

lol, true

I haven't read all these posts, but it seems that some people can't get it through their thick sculls that it doesn't matter that the 1300 player's moves are not random. Sooner or later they will be right, even if it's for the wrong reason.  As I stated earlier, I've gotten Lucky, and been right for the wrong reason, many times doing tactics.

Yes, but you were lucky for one move. Do you think you can be lucky for a long string of moves?

Techincally, yes. But realistically, no.

Given a long enough amount of time, yes.

Infinite is a strange "number". You will even have an infinite amount of copies of the work, but it might be hard to find one between the infinite amount of crap...

The fact that given an infinite amount of time, if something can happen, it will happen, proves that it's not impossible on the very next attempt. The odds however, can be so high against it, that for all practical purposes, you might as well say it's impossible. Though it can't ever be called virtually impossible. Just damn near impossible.

This probability argument is crap.

Even a 1300 would always (most of the time:) win to a random move generator.

Brownian movement & probability: your chessboard would jump in front of you...

Coming back to the original subject, a 1300 would never beat a 2700 player, except when pieces move alone, hahaha:)

yes f he wins luckly on time disconnection ect.