Upgrade to Chess.com Premium!

knights or bishops

Jump to forum:
« Previous | 1 2 | Next » | Last Post
7th March 2009, 04:13pm
#1
by the_Crow
Bedford UK United Kingdom
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 88

Ok,

In the middle and end game is it better to have your knights or bishops left

They should be the same, but I prefere 2 knights against 2 bishops anyday

Am I wrong, please advise

7th March 2009, 04:17pm
#2
by NM OmarCayenne
United States
Member Since: Oct 2007
Member Points: 12607

Yes, you're wrong.

7th March 2009, 04:21pm
#3
by rich
United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 27854

Two Bishops are stronger than two Knights.

Two Bishops are stronger than 1 Knight and 1 Bishop.

7th March 2009, 04:25pm
#4
by the_Crow
Bedford UK United Kingdom
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 88

So I should try to exchange off my knights for bishops thanks guys

7th March 2009, 04:30pm
#5
by Eniamar
Fairfield, OH United States
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 682

General results mean so much in a given position, don't they? Although I guess if we mean the endgame to be a wide open position which it normally is, anyone would take 2 bishops to 2 knights, but more often than not you can force the trade of a set of minors where a single bishop v. knight is far from clear by any hard and fast principle.

7th March 2009, 04:31pm
#6
by richie_and_oprah
Marie Byrd Land United States
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 1861

Pawn structure dictates.

The OP posed good question that is very deep.  Not easy to answer, but easy to oversimplify and generalize.  If there is an answer to be found, it lies in understanding the particular pawn structure in which these pieces are being used.

There are many general guidelines that can serve as "place holders" for the brain as this question is still being asked by some of the top players and arguments about it have waged furiously for many years between some players.

When one gets to expert level and is ready for really deeper theory, works such as Timman's Power Chess With Pieces will provide deep insight into this vexing question.

I still know what I prefer in certain positions, but proving it is correct is another matter entirely.

7th March 2009, 04:33pm
#7
by Honolulu147
Toronto Canada
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 133

 bishops are better in middle and endgame. But in the opening knights can make good forks.

7th March 2009, 04:34pm
#8
by Honolulu147
Toronto Canada
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 133

 Also you can't make a checkmate with 2 knights

7th March 2009, 04:35pm
#9
by Honolulu147
Toronto Canada
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 133

 but you can with 2 bishops

7th March 2009, 04:37pm
#10
by rich
United Kingdom
Member Since: Jul 2007
Member Points: 27854

I like Bishops in the opening as well !

7th March 2009, 04:37pm
#11
by richie_and_oprah
Marie Byrd Land United States
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 1861
Honolulu147 wrote:

 Also you can't make a checkmate with 2 knights


Actually one cam but it is not able to be forced.  It relies on opponent walking into it and "helpmating."

Interestingly, Two Knight & King v. King & Pawn can force checkmate.

 

You can look it up!

7th March 2009, 04:51pm
#12
by tones
Galway Ireland
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 313

Knights working in tandem can be pretty lethal though!

7th March 2009, 04:53pm
#13
by dc1985
Florida United States
Member Since: Apr 2008
Member Points: 933

two bishops can force mate, two knights cannot.

7th March 2009, 05:06pm
#14
by tones
Galway Ireland
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 313

knights can still be very effective in middle game

7th March 2009, 05:22pm
#15
by spoiler1
North Bergen, New Jersey United States
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 311
Anna-Girl wrote:
tonydal wrote:

Yes, you're wrong.


Lol he just wanna know why is he wrong

Because it depends on positions


 Yes, It's "situationally dependent"

7th March 2009, 05:25pm
#16
by --Eshel--
Colombia Colombia
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 113

its like this......close position,knights are stronger.....open position bishops are stronger......

7th March 2009, 05:25pm
#17
by spoiler1
North Bergen, New Jersey United States
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 311

4 or more pawns I go with 2 knights, 3 or less pawns I go with bishops, but then again, it all depends on the structure.

7th March 2009, 06:08pm
#18
by richie_and_oprah
Marie Byrd Land United States
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 1861
tones wrote:

Knights working in tandem can be pretty lethal though!


They confuse the heck out of me.  Just when i think I got them stymied with some deft pawn moves, the zig this way and zag that way and hone in in order to exploit the new weakness I've created.

Important to note that a single knight operates on both color squares so there is no hiding on a single color complex like a King can do v. a lone Bishop.

Also, because of this very fact, Zugzwang principles are not the same with a knight as with other pieces.  They cannot "lose a move" the way other pieces are able to.

On yet another level, there are some particulary amazing stalemates that the knight creates in endgames that are very hard to see coming and must really be known in order to find and execute.

10th March 2009, 04:44pm
#19
by the_Crow
Bedford UK United Kingdom
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 88

Spoiler says "4 or more pawns I go with 2 knights, 3 or less pawns I go with bishops, but then again, it all depends on the structure."

This is great stuff guys, keep it coming.Thanks for all your comments

10th March 2009, 07:03pm
#20
by Ziryab
Spokane, Washington United States
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 3623

I like it when the horses have teeth. In one recent OTB encounter, they were grinning from beside the board as my clerics ran the opponent's king through all the tortures of the Inquisition.

« Previous | 1 2 | Next » | Last Post

Add your comment:

Join Chess.com for free to add your comment! Already a member? Then login now to comment.