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legal AND illegal positions


  • 2 years ago · Quote · #401

    einstein_69101

    cobra91 wrote:
    einstein_69101 wrote:

    Post #421 is illegal since black did not lose any pieces.  White would have no way of doubling pawns on the e-file.


     Right - but that one was easy :)  Have you looked at post #402 (or 409) yet?


     It seems legal, but I haven't worked out all of the details yet.

    Edit:  This might be illegal because white cannot get some of the promoted rooks outside of black's pawn chain.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #402

    ShadowIKnight

    Maybe take away the two queens and the rook on h8 and see if its legal then =P

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #403

    EarlPurple

    I will analyse the first board.

    White must have promoted the pawn from c2 and must have promoted on d8, capturing c6*d7 at some point to take black's bishop. Black's queen must have escaped to somewhere like e6 for this and the king moved to somewhere like b8.

    Meanwhile white has got the queen and then the king out via c2 to let the rook across, whilst one of black's knights has captured the white-squared bishop.

    I will try to compose the game to reach the position. Has anyone else done it yet?

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #404

    EarlPurple

    Reached the first position in 26 moves each. Not sure if it's the fastest but it proves it's legal.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #405

    EarlPurple

    Answer to #68

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #406

    cobra91

    ShadowIKnight wrote:

    Maybe take away the two queens and the rook on h8 and see if its legal then =P


     Strictly speaking, that one is illegal because the FEN string indicates that Black can still castle on both sides...

    ... then again, if we get too strict about the FEN strings, then almost any position (with 17 exceptions) whose FEN terminates with "0 1" is illegal  =P

    That being said, I'll just disregard the FEN altogether and call this "close enough" :

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #407

    ShadowIKnight

    yep nice =P using the pawn promoted or not, rook and queen was correct and the only way I think :P

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #408

    cobra91

    EarlPurple wrote:

    I will analyse the first board.

    White must have promoted the pawn from c2 and must have promoted on d8, capturing c6*d7 at some point to take black's bishop. Black's queen must have escaped to somewhere like e6 for this and the king moved to somewhere like b8.

    Meanwhile white has got the queen and then the king out via c2 to let the rook across, whilst one of black's knights has captured the white-squared bishop.

    I will try to compose the game to reach the position. Has anyone else done it yet?


     Yes, it was done over a year ago by MRO314. Have a look at post #3 waaaay back on the very first page. 

     EarlPurple wrote:

    Reached the first position in 26 moves each. Not sure if it's the fastest but it proves it's legal.


    I'm interested by the text in the annotations box: "600MB, Fritz10.ctg, NEILSHOMEPC". Does that hold any significance?

    EarlPurple wrote:

     

    Answer to #68


     If you take a look at post #81, you may notice the solution was already given...  17 pages (and over 300 comments) ago. The proof game referred to (as well as the original position) is from February 9th of this year, making it more than 2 months old.

    If you want to actively participate in this thread, I would suggest looking at the [far] more recent puzzles and posting solutions to those.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #409

    einstein_69101

     
    This is most likely not the fastest, but it shows its legality.
  • 2 years ago · Quote · #410

    Servietsky

    einstein_69101 wrote:
     
    This is most likely not the fastest, but it shows its legality.

    Wow, you're a genious.... You solve every single one! I tried this one for 30 min and couldnt come close to do it..... wow

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #411

    einstein_69101

    Servietsky wrote:
    einstein_69101 wrote:
     
    This is most likely not the fastest, but it shows its legality.

    Wow, you're a genious.... You solve every single one! I tried this one for 30 min and couldnt come close to do it..... wow


     I noticed that white's a-, b-, g- and h-pawns needed to make a total of six captures so they can promote.  That is exactly how many pieces black has lost which means that white's middle four pawns cannot capture anything and go straight for promotion.  Black's center pawns can capture four times to allow this to happen.  And the trick is to get white's promoted rooks out before black completes his pawn structure.

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #412

    cobra91

    einstein_69101 wrote:
     
    This is most likely not the fastest, but it shows its legality.

     I'm running out of ways to congratulate you, but nicely done  :)  I do wish you'd use some of that brilliance to compose some problems, too, though - it's beginning to seem like I'm the only one coming up with new puzzles, with you making short work of them all... that's not much fun Yell  Speaking of which, could you find post #388 and let me know whether or not I was right about your last position being legal?

    Oh, and you were right about your solution not being the fastest possible; my semi-optimized proof game for the position was 85.5 moves long. If you're tired of all my easy puzzles and want a real retro-challenge, you could try shortening this:

    ________________________________________________________________________________
    Servietsky wrote:
    einstein_69101 wrote:
     
    This is most likely not the fastest, but it shows its legality.

    Wow, you're a genious.... You solve every single one! I tried this one for 30 min and couldnt come close to do it..... wow


    Don't feel too badly about not getting it; my last couple of puzzles were designed to be especially difficult, and in fact I considered it likely that nobody would get them. But I agree with you - there's a reason why his username is einstein  ;)   Still, it's great that you stuck with it for as long as you did; just keep it up and you'll be figuring these out in no time!

    Here's one that doesn't involve a diagram: construct a game that ends with the move 5...Rh1#. Good luck...

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #413

    einstein_69101

    I'll probably compose another one within the next 2-3 days.  :)

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #414

    ShadowIKnight

    You can't compose one with 5...Rh1#? Yes my random guesses work again xD

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #415

    pompom

    By 5... Rh1#, can Rh1# be a capture?  Or does it have to just be... not a capture?

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #416

    cobra91

    pompom wrote:

    By 5... Rh1#, can Rh1# be a capture?  Or does it have to just be... not a capture?


     Indeed, the game from the post above yours fails because 5...Rxh1# is different from 5...Rh1#

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #417

    ShadowIKnight

    So was I right? Its impossible?

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #418

    ShadowIKnight

    oh wait I worked it out, amusing as usual -.- give you a hint, it involves a castle ;D

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #419

    ShadowIKnight

    cmon its easy when you know how its done. you cant stop now when its already begun...

    lol nvm. cmon its easy when you know its a castle :P THINK!

  • 2 years ago · Quote · #420

    mae13

    NinjaBear wrote:

    I've recently become interested in solving puzzles where you determine if a position is legal or not. For example, is this position legal?                                                                                                                                                    

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Can someone produce a position that is legal AND illegal (depending on if the puzzle is white or black to move)? I should also add that neither side is in check.

     

    Have fun...

     

    JOH


     i think it illegal for two reasons 1 the two blackbishops and 2 the kingside rookcant escape yet thepawns havent moved i mean


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