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I don't wish to get into debates about use of MonRoi devices and cheating, please. Nor am I asking whether it's wise to buy one. My question is simply whether or not using a MonRoi device automatically means that one is putting the games into a database somewhere other than inside the device itself. By using a MonRoi in a tournament, am I uploading a game to somewhere? I looked at the MonRoi site and found that searching a player's name got me which events that player used the MonRoi in. I found this odd and wondered if that was just for events that the player wanted his games uploaded, or if perhaps it was required by the (big) tournament. Granted, I couldn't just click on the games and see the moves of that MonRoi player, but I did see games/moves of other players from the same tournament.
Just curious to know more about this piece of technology that costs a pretty penny ($360).
I don't even know what a MonRoi is...
A Google search revealed:
I didn't find the answer to my question there ...
I heard that due to some copyright, games get put on one of their databases.
And even though you don't wanna hear it....
pen + paper < $350...
$350 = lots of chess stuff....
Anyway, go check out the monroi legal documents. The answers should be there.
IMO a monroi is just an expensice toy. Pen and paper score sheet has worked great for 30 years for me. I can do alot more with $350 then spend it on a overpriced Nintendo DS
I'm betting on the pencil until the price of locomotives comes way down.
The Monroi PCM is a personal (that's what the P stands for) device for recording your chess games. If you play in a tournament that uses the Monroi Tournament Manager Hub device, then your PCM can communicate your game wirelessly and in real time to the hub, which can in turn publish it to the Internet or just keep a live record of all the tournament games played in range.
If there's no hub being used by the tournament admins, you're not being recorded. I assume this would be made very clear at or before the outset of a given tournament where PCMs were allowed. (Indeed, just in the interest of preserving battery life, I also suspect that the wireless transmission feature can be turned on or off from the PCM itself. At least I would hope so.)
Thanks, DeepGreene. Well, I think this information leans me away from buying a MonRoi, although part of my decision would depend on whether or not the wireless transmission can be turned off. For the most part, your post has made me not want to buy one, even for $200. But just out of curiosity, do you know if someone ELSE bringing a Hub device to the tournament would allow them to receive the games from an unsuspecting player's MonRoi?
From a competitive angle, I don't see why club players (who rely a bit more on semi-sound and unsound openings) would want to broadcast their games.
I think, at the very least, they need some data off of your PCM (name, ID) for both you and your opponent to get the process started... Then there's the fact that they need a big hub and a PC to actually record... Then there's the fact that the hub is almost $500 US. I don't imagine you get a lot of people pirating PGN off the airwaves, given all that.
You can download manuals for both the personal device and the hub here, but I glanced through them and they are still pretty dark on the question of disabling wireless transmission at the device.
Too right they're overpriced. You can buy an Apple iPod Touch 32 GB (3rd Generation/newest model) for about USD 280. And you can do a HECK of a lot more with it than with the MonRoi...
Anything that broadcasts a wireless signal can be hacked.
Any wireless signal can be intercepted.
Monrois broadcast in the 2.4ghz band, so can potentially be intercepted by standard wireless g hardware and a laptop.
You wouldnt need one of those proprietary $500 hubs although you might need some software to read what is being transmitted. I don't know enough about this device...yet.
If the signal is encrypted, that's the only complication but still any encryption scheme can be defeated.
Now the question is why would someone want to do this? To cheat. Consult with a database or engine perhaps.
But this isn't a thread about cheating so I will shut up now.
"any encryption can be defeated"
Only if you have a super computer and lots of time...
Well, I doubt anyone would care enough to hack just for my games, but the possibility seems real enough. In practical terms, I wouldn't buy one if I didn't have control over whether or not my games were available to others. That's a competitive disadvantage compared to players who use paper & pen -- and a competitive disadvantage that I paid for, ugh.
Yes, but most TD's arent going to let you sit there and use yoru iPod Touch while you play, as there is no way to ensure that you aren't using an engine. The advantage to a MonRoi is that any TD who is familiar with the device knows that there is no engine in it, and that it can ONLY be used for recording, and not cheating...
Is the MonRoi still the only device available? It seems like this device should be less than $100, come with analysis software for you PC to use after the game. This price is crazy.
I guess anyone even considering at MonRoi already has a chess engine and analysis software of some sort, but this seems like a huge rip off.
Couple of points:
a) the MonRoi can only be a temporary phenomenon, much like the Kindle devices for reading electronic books. It's too limited in its functionality to be more. I use my iPod Touch to record training games and I use the Amazon app to download Kindle books to the same device. There's no reason by the USCF couldn't VERY EASILY produce an app that does the same as the MonRoi ... then all smart devices could serve the same purpose and not be a one trick pony.
b) In most tournaments, TDs require the score of one's game, whether that be on paper or from an electronic transmission. You give up proprietary rights to the score sheet contents when you pay the registration, as I see it.
You may be right about the MonRoi, but the Kindle is far from a fad. There are a LOT of them being sold, and there are more and more e-readers coming out all the time to try to compete with them.
Well, I didn't use the word 'fad' because it isn't just whim that has folk buying Kindles. My point, more precisely, is that the evolution of multipurpose personal electronics will either obsolesce the Kindle and its ilk or those devices will have to become ever more multifunctional. Indeed, I suspect that the upcoming Apple Tablet and other such devices will prove more popular. I shouldn't have to pay hundreds of dollars simply to have a device that can serve as a book reader.
But this past Christmas sure was a good year for the book readers, I'll give you that.
Well, enough about Kindles and Apple products ... DrawMaster, I have played over 100 USCF tournaments and never once been asked for my scoresheet, so I have to say that in practice, tournament directors generally do not require a player to hand over the scoresheet. It is true, however, that they have the right to do so.
a) As has already been stated, an iPod could very easily be used to cheat. The Monroi cannot. Yes it would be a heck of a lot cheaper and easier to simply make an app for an iPod to do the exact same thing, but the point is the Monroi is a custom device that restricts itself to just the app. TD's simply could not accept someone using an iPod for the significantly increased risk of cheating.
b) TD's only require a COPY of the scoresheet, which the Monroi can also provide via printout or transmission. Many of the tournaments I went to, the TD's didn't even want a copy of the scoresheet. Rather, the sheet is made just in case there is a dispute during the game. As I said, when occasion comes up where the TD's want the sheets, they just want a copy. The games are public domain, not a proprietary right of anyone.
Guide needed. :)
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