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Myth about improving


  • 13 months ago · Quote · #41

    CombatVision

    Great Comment Transpo -  I put all or nearly all of Averbakh's & Ed Lasker's (Basic Mating positions) on A5 cards with a diagram.  I have about 1250 now (Pongo, Livshitz, Chernev - Combiations The Heart of Chess, and Combo's that I played on the Internet that I call Real Returns)

    You have to study tactics; It's the point - CheckMATE the KING;.

     Probably, a book like Nunn's Middlegame book would be good, but better are the Yussupov series.  But even Yussupov makes it clear you have to set-it UP!!  No Computer.  

    Regarding your remark with the 'mark's' in the book:  FULL ON!

    I mark the diagram with a check (success) or a 0 (failure),  1/2 (partial - although only in horseshoes and hand grenades do you get partial credit).

    Algorab - Livshitz recommends that you do one or two hard sit-down concentrated sets of puzzles 2x a week but no more.  

    Good choices are:  

    • John Nunn's Puzzle book,
    • Hort's Find the BEST MOVE,
    • Livshitz 3 volume set.  (Livshitz remarks that it is better a concentrated session of say 90 minutes where you set it up on a 3-D board and work out why.)  

    Really stay away from the computer.  It's too easy to grasp for the Grey Monster and not engage your BRAIN.  It is harder and more tiring to SET-IT-UP.  But I know what you mean,... I grow to hate the cards and my dbase of positions sometimes.  

    As DaliLuk above remarks, no one wants to come to practice.

    They say that Practice Makes Perfect, "Close, but NO Cigar!"

    "Perfect Practice makes Perfect,..." and if you have limited time (or parents who forbide you to spend more than 90 minutes on the INternet), I would once again say that Reinforcing Tactical Patterns will give you more Return on Investment then any other study.  If you get to the 2050-2250 level then Lev Psakhis (Advanced Chess Tactics; this book deserves the Book of the Year Award.  So much useful and REAL life experience.  Lev tells it like it is and he deserves some respect, i.e. 2x Soviet Chp; I hope he is winning his battle with cancer.  Sorry for the plug);

    Anyway, I have to stop my Rant,.... and study some tactics   Yell Oy 

  • 13 months ago · Quote · #42

    CombatVision

    Tony H - Gud ON U
    I found a used book by some very famous American Basketball coach in NorthEnd of London,... John Wooden.  I guess he is very famous.  Forgive my ignorance, but wonderful words:

    Four Laws of Learning (John Wooden)

    1. Explanation
    2. Demonstration
    3. Imitation
    4. Repetition

    The goal is to create a Correct Habit that can be produced instinctively under GREAT Pressure.  To make sure that this goal is achieved, add the following three extra laws of Learning:

    • Repetition
    • Repetition
    • Repetition

    I, obviously need to follow my own advise.  ;-))

    Great Comment


  • 13 months ago · Quote · #43

    bobbyDK

    I think it is a myth that you improve if you are punished for your mistakes.

  • 13 months ago · Quote · #44

    CombatVision

    Punish the mistakes, but REWARD the successes,.... Everyone want to punish, but a good teacher emphasis your successes and tries to get you to repeat them.  

    Nothing succeeds like success

  • 13 months ago · Quote · #45

    TonyH

    I teach the same way, always look for the positive, point out the mistakes but spend 5x as much time on the good stuff. 

  • 13 months ago · Quote · #46

    DalaiLuke

    bobbyDK wrote:

    I think it is a myth that you improve if you are punished for your mistakes.

    My early years of stock trading are a testament to this!

  • 13 months ago · Quote · #47

    DalaiLuke

    bobbyDK wrote:

    I think it is a myth that you improve if you are punished for your mistakes.

    My early years of stock trading are a testament to this!

  • 13 months ago · Quote · #48

    Neoptelemus

    guesso wrote:

    The topic clearly illustrates the main problem I proposed in the first topic. People are discussing several different study methods yet no one knows which is the most efficient.

    Research has shown that not everyone has the same learning style (Mumford & Honey). There are four basic styles and you have to know your own. There is no one way that is the most efficient for everybody.
  • 13 months ago · Quote · #49

    CorfitzUlfeldt

    Neoptelemus wrote:
     
    Research has shown that not everyone has the same learning style (Mumford & Honey). There are four basic styles and you have to know your own. There is no one way that is the most efficient for everybody.

    The source for the claims on that webpage is very old (1982), and I suspect that is isn't based on the kind of "research" that matters. (empirical)

    Yet that stuff about "learning styles" gets repeated over and over again. :(

    In Willingham, D: "Why don't students like school?" from 2009 he basically says that there are no empirical basis for the claim that you can improve teaching by considering those "learning styles", and that people are more alike than different in terms of how they think and learn.

  • 13 months ago · Quote · #50

    DalaiLuke

    All you need is more than one child and you know there are different learning styles... in a family of 8 kids, we had a huge range of personalities, learning styles, aptitudes toward different subjects that changed at different ages. I understand the allure of keeping things simple, and for any larger classroom, you really have little choice.  But to say everyone generally learns the same is a bit oversimplistic.  

    This is one of those areas where everyone has an opinion, and you can hang your hat on any one theory.  We can debate forever.  When it comes to chess, there are certain tactics, combinations, strategies that are inherint in the game.  Fail to learn them at your own risk.

    Which ... comes back to practice, practice, practice :)

  • 13 months ago · Quote · #51

    VULPES_VULPES

    aww-rats wrote:

    Try my free program, I have 7 lessons posted. See my blog site in my profile. It all comes down to how much time you have and focusing on what you need to know.  Lesson001 pretty much explains it, the subsequent lessons expand on it. My claim is, I can get anyone up to chess master if they will dedicate themselves to my methods. I have a group too, join that.

    Advertising?

  • 13 months ago · Quote · #52

    CorfitzUlfeldt

    DalaiLuke wrote:

    All you need is more than one child and you know there are different learning styles... in a family of 8 kids, we had a huge range of personalities, learning styles, aptitudes toward different subjects that changed at different ages.

    And that is propably why the theory is so popular. Verifications seem to be everywhere.

    But the theory doesn't just say that people have different personalities, interests and abilities. That is most certainly true, but the theory claims something more, which isn't obviously true.

    It predicts that people can be put into groups based on their "learning style", and that you can teach the same subject matter (ie opening theory or french verbs) to those different groups better, by doing it in a way that should somehow match their particular learning style.

    As far as I know, that has not been shown to be the case.

     

    DalaiLuke wrote:
    This is one of those areas where everyone has an opinion, and you can hang your hat on any one theory.  We can debate forever. 

     

    Every opinion is not equally good on a subject like this. I hang my hat on what those cognitive scientists say. Smile

  • 13 months ago · Quote · #53

    NajdorfDefense

    10000 hours is a good heuristic. If any motivated player spent that much time on their game over, say 5-6 years, they would definitely be a master at the end of it. [As opposed to reading the latest hot opening theory and playing blitz with their friends.] Many of the strongest juniors who became GMs saw the improvement come over 6-8 years [it takes them longer because they are not fully developed and don't have total control over their free time.]

    It's like the secret to becoming a good investor - the secret is that there is no secret - it takes time, energy, dedication, perseverance, and hard work and no shortcuts.

  • 13 months ago · Quote · #54

    CombatVision

    Hard work, Repetition, Honest Evaluation of your strengths and weaknesses,....   Repeat, Repeat, Repeat,...   

    But something to think about, Capablanca (3 August, 1922) once said, "As to myself, if business men gave as little time to their business as I generally give to chess, they would all go bankrupt in a very short time........Of course, if a man wants to become a leading chess player and has not the great natural ability required for such a thing, he will need more time than a day has hours, but he will never get there."

    So guess it is back to tactics, tactics, tactics, at least I have fun,... 

  • 13 months ago · Quote · #55

    guesso

    Everyone seem to go offtopic.

    What I intended to say is:
    None of the grandmasters have shared a tested method of improving one's playing strength. There is one (or more) since there are famous chess schools which produced great players (e.g.:Botvinnik's school)

    What we get as books are just tools but we don't get a detailed manual to use them.

    Tactics books: You can repeat the puzzles until you know the solution by only looking at the number of the puzzle but you will still miss tactics in your own games. Conclusion: you are probably doing something wrong

    Strategy books: These books are just ordinary game collections grouped by themes, nothing more. Mostly all of them contain the same material with different examples. I'm pretty sure the author does not expect the student to improve, by only examining how a grandmaster who spent all his life playing chess, turns a pawn weakness into a win. The proper way of using these kind of books is unrevealed.

    Endgame books: I have studied a couple of rooks ending recently with the help of nalimov tablebases. They are full of only moves, one mistake and your won game is a draw. The author mentions at these positions if you play something else you miss the win. It's nice it shows he knows the endgame but how should I recognise these moves in my games when I'm on my own? Of course no more information is provided, only a long ass variation.

    Ultimate conclusion:

    What the author says to the student: Figure it out on your own jackass I won't tell you how to get better for a few bucks.

  • 13 months ago · Quote · #56

    CombatVision

    guesso - take a look at Psakhis ' Book Advanced chess tactics,... I think it is the book that you are looking for,... He wrote it on his death bed (but I guess he is back.  Great)   

    He tells you like it is and NOT the usual BS.    Unfortunately, you will have to actually read it and go through it and stay off the internet, because his examples take time.  But I have the distinct feeling that he really shared it all as a last laugh on all his GM colleagues.  

    Kind of like, "...well I have given the keys to the barbarians and I am passing into the next world.  So I get the last laugh."

    Nobody reviews it, because they do not want you to know about how good it is and how close it comes to answering your question.  

    Open your wallet one more time,... and engage your brain and you will find what you are looking for,...   

    Oh, and turn of the Grey Beast (i.e. computer)

    trying to be helpful and NOT to serious  GUD Luck MatieKiss

  • 13 months ago · Quote · #57

    kco

    NajdorfDefense wrote:

    10000 hours is a good heuristic. If any motivated player spent that much time on their game over, say 5-6 years, they would definitely be a master at the end of it. [As opposed to reading the latest hot opening theory and playing blitz with their friends.] Many of the strongest juniors who became GMs saw the improvement come over 6-8 years [it takes them longer because they are not fully developed and don't have total control over their free time.]

    It's like the secret to becoming a good investor - the secret is that there is no secret - it takes time, energy, dedication, perseverance, and hard work and no shortcuts.

    As soon as you said that you gonna give poor andyclifton an ulcer. 

  • 13 months ago · Quote · #58

    waffllemaster

    NajdorfDefense wrote:

    10000 hours is a good heuristic. If any motivated player spent that much time on their game over, say 5-6 years, they would definitely be a master at the end of it.

    Examples of chess players who you're basing this off of please.

  • 13 months ago · Quote · #59

    hicetnunc

    guesso wrote:

    Everyone seem to go offtopic.

    What I intended to say is:
    None of the grandmasters have shared a tested method of improving one's playing strength. There is one (or more) since there are famous chess schools which produced great players (e.g.:Botvinnik's school)

    What we get as books are just tools but we don't get a detailed manual to use them.

    (...)

    What the author says to the student: Figure it out on your own jackass I won't tell you how to get better for a few bucks.

    There are two ways to use chess material :

    - immersion : you replay games or model play in typical positions

    - active learning : you try to find out the best moves by yourself, than you compare with the solution, then if you're wrong you formulate why in your own words.

    Both these methods work. The 1st one may work better for young players. Most GMs have use extensively the 1st method, along playing and analyzing a lot.

  • 13 months ago · Quote · #60

    CorfitzUlfeldt

    guesso wrote:
    What we get as books are just tools but we don't get a detailed manual to use them.

    If I gave you the book on how to read a chess book, you would request another book on how to read the book I just gave you.


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