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Offering draws

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19th November 2009, 09:36am
#1
by rooperi
Gamtoos River Mouth South Africa
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 10779

I'm never sure how to go about this.

You're a pawn down, but the ending is clearly drawn. Who should offer the draw, the player with material advantage, or the one that's down on material? Is there an etiquette regarding this?

19th November 2009, 09:51am
#2
by kunduk
kolkata India
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 964

i was once a pawn up, but in fact, i offered him a draw, at last....

19th November 2009, 09:53am
#3
by rooperi
Gamtoos River Mouth South Africa
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 10779
kunduk wrote:

i was once a pawn up, but in fact, i offered him a draw, at last....


I think that's the right way. Offering when you're down just seems so desperate.

19th November 2009, 09:56am
#4
by danthemasterman
UK Queen ER Bridge United Kingdom
Member Since: Sep 2009
Member Points: 17

draws are for wimps. play till the end unless theres no other option.

19th November 2009, 09:58am
#5
by StupidDrip95
NJ United States
Member Since: Sep 2009
Member Points: 1510

yeah, I think that you would wait, as there is not much hope that you opponent will take it if he knows that you are desperate to draw. therefore, put up a good fight, and see if he offers you a draw. better yet, don't get into this position in the first place!! Laughing

19th November 2009, 10:07am
#6
by marvellosity
Portsmouth United Kingdom
Member Since: May 2009
Member Points: 2077

If I'm a pawn down and I know it's a draw, too right will I offer a draw. With any luck the opponent will realise he can't win and accept the draw. Nothing to do with desperation, it's just accurate evaluation of the position.

Depending on how obvious the draw is, I might say on refusal "you know this is a dead draw right?"

The boot was somewhat on the other foot in my last OTB game, I was a pawn up in a drawn rook endgame, he offered me a draw and I declined hoping he'd err in the next few moves, he said "this is a total theoretical draw", I smiled and said "I know" and a few moves later when it was clear he wasn't going to err I just stuck my hand out and we chatted about the game.

19th November 2009, 10:09am
#7
by Stevereti
North Carolina United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 75

If it's a clear draw and both players are fairly high rated, offering a draw when down a pawn seems right. You are saying to your opponent: "look, we both know how to play chess, no sense in wasting our time". To say "fight on and never quit" is to say you don't care about chess, you just hope for a stupid blunder or time loss. 

19th November 2009, 10:16am
#8
by danthemasterman
UK Queen ER Bridge United Kingdom
Member Since: Sep 2009
Member Points: 17

chess is a battle . name me one where they shake hands and say its a draw old chap. too play serious is to play till the capture unless its all to clear and then when is it all too clear. another topic altogether.

19th November 2009, 11:11am
#9
by mottsauce
United States
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 4232
danthemasterman wrote:

chess is a battle . name me one where they shake hands and say its a draw old chap. too play serious is to play till the capture unless its all to clear and then when is it all too clear. another topic altogether.


uhh... let me think...nearly all games between British GM's...

19th November 2009, 11:28am
#10
by trigs
Hamilton Canada
Member Since: Aug 2008
Member Points: 2076

i'll never offer a draw down material even when the draw is imminent.

19th November 2009, 11:50am
#11
by pskogli
Afghanistan
Member Since: Apr 2008
Member Points: 526

There should only be legal to claim draw, offer draw should not be an option.

19th November 2009, 12:42pm
#12
by Paranoid-Android
Maribor Slovenia
Member Since: May 2009
Member Points: 355

I accepted a draw when I had Q vs R+N, but almost all pawns were still on the board and the position was closed tightly. He even controlled all possible squares that I could infiltrate through. He was lower rated, so for him it may be desperate draw offer. But I knew it was a draw, we would make 50 moves and then he'd claim it. I don't think that it's rude to offer a draw when down material. But I think it's rude when weaker opponent offers you a draw in clearly drawn position, even if you're up in material, and you decline it. You're basically saying to him "you are lower rated than me, so I think that you have no idea about what you're doing". I did this once and as a revenge opponent then declined my draw offer - when having absolutely no chances of winning, I'd had to put a piece en-prise for him to win. He was the one who had to be careful not to make a mistake, and he didn't make a mistake even though we played for 15 more moves. That learned me not to make assumptions about opponent's knowledge based on his rating.

15th December 2009, 12:21am
#13
by blowerd
Wolverhampton United Kingdom
Member Since: Dec 2009
Member Points: 204

I have only drawn two games on this site.  (Played 19.)  One was drawn by me and my opponent only having our Kings left.  So I have only had one draw by agreement on this website.  My opponent offered it me and I accepted. 

Here is the game, if anyone feals there was a way for white or black to win (I was white) you can say. 

http://www.chess.com/echess/game.html?id=29828159 

15th December 2009, 12:25am
#14
by AnthonyCG
Washington DC United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 6628

I drew a game last time I played. I offered a draw since I was just gonna lose my last pawn anway.

15th December 2009, 12:52am
#15
by Alphastar18
Groningen Netherlands
Member Since: May 2009
Member Points: 2128

Some might see offering a draw in a position with a pawn less as arrogant, but if they refuse you know they aren't convinced of the draw yet, so you'll have to show them.

15th December 2009, 01:11am
#16
by Scarblac
Arnhem Netherlands
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 2009

The etiquette is to let the side with the extra pawn up offer the draw (since they know you'll accept, it's already up to them to decide when they want a draw), but it's very minor. Nobody will really mind.

15th December 2009, 01:21am
#17
by HotFlow
KL, Malaysia Malaysia
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 2512

No harm in appearing desperate.

15th December 2009, 01:24am
#18
by dsarkar
United States
Member Since: Sep 2008
Member Points: 9104

I agree with Stevereti

However, draw should be offered only once... if it is refused, it is decorum to wait for your opponent to offer draw next time

Repeated draw offer is considered rude

15th December 2009, 01:27am
#19
by green31
Manila Philippines
Member Since: Dec 2009
Member Points: 40
AnthonyCG wrote:

I drew a game last time I played. I offered a draw since I was just gonna lose my last pawn anway.

 


 no offence but your an idiot. thats a GM game lmfao I think its capablanca's. O_o u went into a GM position, oh yay. It was a draw because you should have put your rook behind the passed pawn.

15th December 2009, 01:28am
#20
by Scarblac
Arnhem Netherlands
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 2009
green31 wrote:
AnthonyCG wrote:

I drew a game last time I played. I offered a draw since I was just gonna lose my last pawn anway.

 


 no offence but your an idiot. thats a GM game lmfao I think its capablanca's


It's a typical five piece rook ending. That exact position has probably occurred hundreds of times...

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