I have a question. Is it allright to use books for online games to play the opening moves. Online games are basically the same as the old postal chess games & back then (I'm showing my age here) we were allowed to use books for those games. Using computers is bad (I only use Chessmaster after the game is over to see what I could've done better after bad moves), I don't see anything wrong for using books to help with openings. After all it only is good if both sides stay on the opening line, once it variates, you're on you're own. What's the consenses? Is using books during the opening ok or not ok for online (correspondence) chess?

Yes, its fine to use books and databases. 

No engines though

It is legal here, but it is cheating the game and yourself, depsite the deniers and criers.

 

You are not playing chess if you use a book while playing.  You are transcribing moves and relying on other people's analysis and evaluations and you will retard you own ability to learn and do this.  You will probably win more games here, though! 

So sure, it is legal here... mainly because it cannot be controlled.  But, if you really wish to get better, keep the books closed until after the game and work on  improving  your memory.

Modern CC Chess is a joke, Kepler.  It is all engine use. It is not CC Chess the way Berliner played the game, nor is it even chess between human beings any more.

If one is not actively using an engine they will be crushed in 99% of their games.

People that stay in the CC world will all convert to engine use just to stay alive as someone that loses everyone of their games is not going to stick around too long, I wager.

 

CC chess is basically a spectator event in which people are manipulating their engines.  It is no different that watching robot-wars, except to the people doing it, but that is because they have completely lost touch with the humanistic element of playing the game.

Even those sites that claim no engine use are a joke.  People create large cyborg databases as a workaround on engines and even though they can technically claim they are not actively using an engine, the net effect is the same.

I don't see what makes engines so appealing. I'm sure a fancy toaster could play a good game if someone wanted.

I dont think the original poster was asking for an ethics lecture, he just wanted to know whether books were allowed. 

The answer is yes

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I personally don't see what the problem is with asking your cat.  Unless of course your cat is some kind of idiot savant at chess, then it would be cheating.

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No poop.  That answer was already offered.

 

I am trying to convince the pooor fellow to not move over to the dark side.

Once you do, you will not come back.  You will rely on those crutches forever, your brain will go soft like all these other CC advocates, and your game will forever stagnate as you forever try to rationalize your decisons.

 

Looking at the answers to the crossword puzzles is cheating even if the pront the answers in the same edition of the newspaper.

You are cheating yourself if you use materials, despite what anyone states about its legallity.  You will prevent your brain from building the engrams becausr you are not doing the work.

 

Looking at people lifting weights and having them lift for you is what using books is.  Most sane people can realize this, but a lot of CC players are very threatened by this and fight like crazy to pretend it is not so.

Okay. Anyone want some toast? I'm a pawn down atm but he makes wonderful toast so I don't mind. :)

I think books can be used in CC to improve one's OTB repertoire.

This is just common sense - you find out what lines are good/dubious/bad to use OTB via experimentation in CC.

Engine use isn't generally an issue for 90% of CC players because let's face it, if you are playing a 1800 rated who frequently uses an engine, something has gone badly awry for the poor chap!  

kepler,Fair enough! 

The richie-and-oprah Praxis Ministries traveling road show and dogma will be coming to a town near you.

 

SteveCollyer, if one's memory is not strong enough, it does nothing for one's otb.    And if one's memory is strong enough, there is no need for the books. 

Catch-22.

 

Peace.

Ok, lets go off on another tangent. Those of you who say it is cheating, do you also, when playing what is basically a modern version of "postal chess", not move pieces around before you move, to see what the best possible move might be? Or do you just look at the board like you do in OTB chess, without moving pieces until you are actually ready make your move? I personally always used postal chess & online chess to study the positions & move around pieces all I want to recognize pins, forks, possible blunders etc, to hopefully make my OTB chess better. Maybe what they should have here is 2 sections of online chess. One for players to play a game without books and moving around pieces (basically playing an actual game) and one for people who are using it as a tool for their OTB preperation. 

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 That sounds rather dogmatic to me.

I wish life (and chess) were so straightforward.

I can assure you that I have employed lines from books which I have played in CC then used to my advantage in my OTB games.

CC is rubbish anyway. Half the time I forget what I'm trying to do in each game.

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I forget sometimes what i was trying to do or what potential threats are. But that's what the notes section is for. To jot down anything just as if you were using a notebook.

With or without live chess, there is still a place for OTB players like myself in online chess. I want to play OTB style games with OTB style time per moves, ie i want to spend maybe 5 or 10 minutes per move. Now, i cant afford the time to play a 4 or 5 hr game on live, my time is too precious. So, i use online chess to do this, with the major advantage of being able to 'leave the table' whenever it suits me, and come back and carry on the game when it suits me. live chess will never be able to replicate this advantage,. For blitz live is great, but for serious OTB style games, online chess is the best for me.

I should have mentioned also that altho in casual online games I use the books, in tournament games & team match games I do not. Those I treat as if they were real OTB games.

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Damn!  My brain is already soft and I don't use dbs and engines, and the like.  Plus, I'm naturally lazy and my memory is not photographic.  Oh well, it's still fun to lose.