online chess rating vs usfc rating

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25th February 2009, 09:15pm
#21
by goldendog
beertopia United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 2257
psilohead wrote:

does it really matter?

really?


  It depends what you are into the game for. Art or some aesthetic? Competition? The girls?

Which is the wrong one?

25th February 2009, 11:07pm
#22
by Schachgeek
Western Hemisphere United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 946
Kupov wrote:

Live chess and USCF are usually almost identical, however the CC chess ratings are very inflated (200-400 pts).


USCF ratings dont include random disconnects.

25th February 2009, 11:55pm
#23
by Theempiremaker
United States
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 700

A player can be mislead by ratings . What it comes down to is what you do in the game , wither it's Kasparov or your kid sister.

26th February 2009, 01:04am
#24
by UrWorstKnightMare
Ohio United States
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 183

I'm curious and excited to see what my USCF would be. I'll be playing in my first rated tournament in a few weeks. I played in an unrated one a year ago but the competition wasn't very good. Just from what I know and people who I can beat that are rated, I think I'd be about 1300-1400.

26th February 2009, 07:01am
#25
by Theempiremaker
United States
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 700
UrWorstKnightMare wrote:

I'm curious and excited to see what my USCF would be. I'll be playing in my first rated tournament in a few weeks. I played in an unrated one a year ago but the competition wasn't very good. Just from what I know and people who I can beat that are rated, I think I'd be about 1300-1400.


 No matter who or what you play always play good chess.

26th February 2009, 07:20am
#26
by ichabod801
Maryland United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 784
goldendog wrote:

I have looked at a couple of dozen cc games here. Not all that many, to be sure, but in each case I see some quite bad play that does not correspond with what I know of USCF otb-ers with similar ratings. The cc games are much worse quality than what I see otb, with similar ratings. I can only conclude that the ratings are very inflated as they express chess skill/knowledge.

Live chess. Haven't looked at one game so I have no opinion.


 This is a common misconception about Chess ratings. They don't measure chess skill or knowledge. They measure the likelihood that one player will beat another within a given population.

26th February 2009, 07:21am
#27
by Niven42
West Lafayette, Indiana United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 1222
Bruiser419 wrote:

Well, I wouldn't say that the Online chess ratings are "inflated".  They just represent a different type of chess than live and OTB.  People playing online chess should have higher online chess ratings than OTB or Live since they have the oppurtunity to use books and certain other things and also have longer time periods to make theiur decisions, as opposed to having to play a whole game in a relatively short period of time.


Rating are based on the populations they occur in.  There are a lot more people playing on Chess.com, and the population is world-wide.  The numbers don't necessarily reflect that people are "better" on Chess.com, and it doesn't necessarily reflect that the population here is making their moves more slowly or have access to reference material while playing.

 

It's very typical to obsess about rating, but rating is only a relative indicator of strength, and it means nothing outside of the population it occurred in.  For more information, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

26th February 2009, 07:23am
#28
by Niven42
West Lafayette, Indiana United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 1222

HA! Ichabod had almost the same response as me, but he beat me by 1 minute. Smile

26th February 2009, 09:58am
#29
by Rolandwood
United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 47

A rating of 1600 on chess.com puts you in the top 20% of members.

Does this mean that only the top 20% of this site would have a chance to be rated 1200 or higher USCF?

26th February 2009, 10:12am
#30
by biggbunny
Kansas United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 9

I used to play both OTB and correspondence USCF tourmaments.  I haven't played USCF for over ten years, but my correspondence rating is about 150 points higher than my OTB rating @1825 versus @1675.  My chess.com rating is similar to my correspondence chess rating. I think it takes a little different aptitude to play correspondence , turn based chess and ratings will be different.

That said, my USCF Quick chess rating is also 1800+  so go figure.

26th February 2009, 10:23am
#31
by drmr4vrmr
baguio Philippines
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 463

I care not for the ratings.  So long as an enjoyable game is played. I never played uscf, fide, nor icc. Probably wont.. there's enough interesting players here that could humble me with ease. So let's play a fun game.. forget the ratings. They're only good when playing timed, face to face, encounters. No aides, books, kibitzing, etc. Just one brain against another!

26th February 2009, 11:41am
#32
by jchurch5566
Ohio United States
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 2129

Hi guys,

I sure wish Chess.com would do a little research and give us an answer to this question.  It comes up at least once a month.  Surely, Chess.com has enough data to give us some hard number crunching answers.

26th February 2009, 12:15pm
#33
by ichabod801
Maryland United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 784
jchurch5566 wrote:

Hi guys,

I sure wish Chess.com would do a little research and give us an answer to this question.  It comes up at least once a month.  Surely, Chess.com has enough data to give us some hard number crunching answers.


 I'm a statistician, I could run a regression on the data. Of course, there's probably some privacy thing such that they can't give me the data, even with any identifying information stripped from it.

26th February 2009, 12:38pm
#34
by kungfoodchef
vigrinia United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 260

thank you for your comments

26th February 2009, 12:51pm
#35
by likesforests
United States
Member Since: May 2007
Member Points: 4407

Here are the datapoints for 7 people I know both on here and off here:

chess.com 'Online Chess' vs USCF 'Standard'

2250 1300

2050 1750

2050 1400

1900 1400

1800 1500

1750 1700

1400 1500

26th February 2009, 12:53pm
#36
by likesforests
United States
Member Since: May 2007
Member Points: 4407

If you're under 1400 in 'Online Chess', you're probably under 1100 OTB because you still hang pieces. Beyond that I'm not sure there's much correspondence. That's also why I mostly play timed games rather than correspondence chess to prepare for OTB events.

Live 'Long' ratings probably correspond best to OTB ratings.

26th February 2009, 01:27pm
#37
by Eniamar
Ohio United States
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 328

That data set is a bit small.

The best fit I've found so far(let U=uscf rating and C=chess.com rating) is

C=-7.3*10-8(U)^4+.000481(U)^3-1.1649(U)^2+1232.21(U)-478642

Yeah, it's nasty, not easy to write in a text editor, and R^2=.7966 so it's probably the best bet I'm going to find without getting out some serious computing power.

26th February 2009, 01:40pm
#38
by Eniamar
Ohio United States
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 328

I was actually referring to likesforest's post, two examples isn't even worth running regressions on.

26th February 2009, 01:44pm
#39
by ichabod801
Maryland United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 784
goldendog wrote:
ichabod801 wrote:
goldendog wrote:

I have looked at a couple of dozen cc games here. Not all that many, to be sure, but in each case I see some quite bad play that does not correspond with what I know of USCF otb-ers with similar ratings. The cc games are much worse quality than what I see otb, with similar ratings. I can only conclude that the ratings are very inflated as they express chess skill/knowledge.

Live chess. Haven't looked at one game so I have no opinion.


 This is a common misconception about Chess ratings. They don't measure chess skill or knowledge. They measure the likelihood that one player will beat another within a given population.


 Ratings reflect relative likelihood of a long term result, not in personal terms but in statistical ones. Since chess games are won by and large with superior chess skill (or less crappy skill in many cases), ratings can fairly be held to reflect a level of chess skill. It is fair to state that a group of players who is beating another group 3-1 is the group with greater chess skill. A higher rating reflects more chess skill.


 Define "chess skill." Is how much sleep I got last night part of chess skill? Because I think it will definitely affect my chess performance, which is what the rating system uses to make it's estimates. Also, chess skill is different within different populations, and ratings are population dependent. Furthermore, since ratings are population dependent, it doesn't make sense to compare ratings from different populations. My Chess.com rating is not in any way "inflated." It is an unbiased a represenation of my performance within the Chess.com population. No, it is not a good representation of my performance in the USCF population. But it was never intended to be that, and it never claimed to be that. It is, however, a common misconception that it can be used in such a fashion. 

26th February 2009, 01:54pm
#40
by goldendog
beertopia United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 2257
ichabod801 wrote:
goldendog wrote:

I have looked at a couple of dozen cc games here. Not all that many, to be sure, but in each case I see some quite bad play that does not correspond with what I know of USCF otb-ers with similar ratings. The cc games are much worse quality than what I see otb, with similar ratings. I can only conclude that the ratings are very inflated as they express chess skill/knowledge.

Live chess. Haven't looked at one game so I have no opinion.


 This is a common misconception about Chess ratings. They don't measure chess skill or knowledge. They measure the likelihood that one player will beat another within a given population.


 Since the point of the original poster was how the ratings here equate with USCF, we had to try to answer even if they are two different populations, playing under different time controls and in very different settings. Ultimately an otb chess player with some years of experience notices when players here with a 1600 cc rating play with nowhere near the skill of the 1600s he is familiar with otb. So the comparison is made and the conclusion is that the 1600 here is "inflated" (not technically the right term but the one we use without much of a stumbling block) relative to the 1600 USCF. We also note that the chess skill of the obt-ers vs. that of the onliners isn't reflected in their similar ratings, as expected.

While ratings don't directly reflect a level of chess skill, as was stated, those adults with long-established ratings have an excellent idea what those numbers imply for those like them and serve as a fair predictor for the result of many games vs.many opponents of likewise established status.


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