# Pattern Recognition vs. Calculation

• 14 months ago · Quote · #21

Also I didn't even bother to verify if Raa2 was an answer for black, so I really fell short on the calculation lol.  Ok, so mark me down for way too much pattern thinking on this one.

• 14 months ago · Quote · #22

How did that B get to b5?

• 14 months ago · Quote · #23
e4nf3 wrote:

How did that B get to b5?

Maybe Bxb5 Rb1 c6 or something.  It also could have happened much earlier in the game.

• 14 months ago · Quote · #24

Yeah...I concluded that after posting. Thanks.

Looks to me...from calculating:

Rd1...

Qd4...

Nh6#

Just a quick calculation. I really should put it on a board.

• 14 months ago · Quote · #25

[COMMENT DELETED...duplicate]

• 14 months ago · Quote · #26

The only pattern I saw was "weak king". The rest was by calculation, although I supposed you could argue that "deflection" is kind of a pattern too.

• 14 months ago · Quote · #27

For me, one of the hardest things about solving a tactical puzzle is finding the best defensive moves for the opponent.  At least in puzzles like these where the "big idea" of it hits you in the face and you're just trying to find a way to get there.

I thought of Rd1 too, but after Qe7 the diagonal is protected on an additional square (g7).

• 14 months ago · Quote · #28

Pattern recognition for the B+N mate, calculation for deflecting the rook

• 14 months ago · Quote · #29
hicetnunc wrote:

Pattern recognition for the B+N mate, calculation for deflecting the rook

Concise way to say it.

• 14 months ago · Quote · #30

I found it in a tactics book. I think Tietz played this game as white.

• 14 months ago · Quote · #31

I like to calculate! Isn't that supposed to be key to the enjoyment of chess?

• 14 months ago · Quote · #32

It seems if you are in a unfamiliar position you half to calculate, but when you play something a lot, you know the tactics. That is why it is good to learn opening theory. The position I showed is unusual because it is a very unusual tactic.That is why I got it wrong on my first try. That is why you should study tactics. My weakness is not tactics or openings(I am trying to seriously memorize openings in my repertoire and my tactics are super strong) but the nothing to do positions (that includes endgames). Here is my question, do strong players use pattern recognition for the nothing to do positions, and if not, how do they do it?

• 14 months ago · Quote · #33

This is the answer to the chess problem I posted earlier.

• 14 months ago · Quote · #34

Clearly, if you're familiar with the pattern where the Bishop holds the long diagonal while the Knight delivers mate on h6, you will homein on the target more quickly. Then you calculate, and in calculating you see Black defenses and then you seee ways to overcome them (e.g. Rxb5 followed by Rc8!). Then, as you encounter even more Black defensive tries, you have to fall back on your third weapon: stuborness! Once you've seen the pattern, you work like hell to make it work in this position. Really good players don't give up on an idea easily.

• 14 months ago · Quote · #35

CHCL: This is the answer to the chess problem I posted earlier.

I've had a chance to put this on an engine. The result was Rd1, as I had calculated instead of RxB as shown. Then ...Qe7, Qd4...Qg7   which is also in line with my quick calculation.

From there the white bishop was brought in for Be5 followed by an exchange of Qs. The end result, after the dust settled, is that white came out ahead but no mate in 6.

I don't think I did too badly, for a quick calculation. Also, at my level 3 or 4 moves and the various permutations/combinations therein is the best of my capability. And, I doubt that there are many players except the best who can see 6 ply in one fell swoop.

Also, the engine that I used in this case didn't come up with the answer either. In fairness, I may not have given it sufficient time to really "deep think". Or...it could be the limit of this particular engine.

Pattern recognition may play a general role in this kind of puzzle. Yet the player must also be precise in the calculations. And, how many players can extrapolate six moves in?

I'm just a guy who is earnestly looking to improve. And, I know that I have a long way to go.

• 14 months ago · Quote · #36

@e4nf3, what do you mean "The result was Rd1, as I had calculated instead of RxB as shown." Your engine chose Rd1 over Rook takes bishop!!! I will admit that 1.Qf1 and 2.Qf1 were strong, but Rd1 is just equal.

• 14 months ago · Quote · #37

This game was played in the 1800s, I don't think there was any patterns to study.

• 14 months ago · Quote · #38
CHCL wrote:

@e4nf3, what do you mean "The result was Rd1, as I had calculated instead of RxB as shown." Your engine chose Rd1 over Rook takes bishop!!! I will admit that 1.Qf1 and 2.Qf1 were strong, but Rd1 is just equal.

Yes. It did. As I said. Look...I'm just reporting the news.

You can use different engines and get different results in many cases. Too, there are variables as to how much time you give an engine...as someone who plays a blitz game or someone who has three days in correspondence.

• 14 months ago · Quote · #39
CHCL wrote:

This game was played in the 1800s, I don't think there was any patterns to study.

I played in the 1950ies and never heard of "pattern recognition" back then.

Other words not used: lines, book, database, opening theory...just a few off the top of my head.

• 14 months ago · Quote · #40
CHCL wrote:

It seems if you are in a unfamiliar position you half to calculate, but when you play something a lot, you know the tactics. That is why it is good to learn opening theory. The position I showed is unusual because it is a very unusual tactic.That is why I got it wrong on my first try. That is why you should study tactics. My weakness is not tactics or openings(I am trying to seriously memorize openings in my repertoire and my tactics are super strong) but the nothing to do positions (that includes endgames). Here is my question, do strong players use pattern recognition for the nothing to do positions, and if not, how do they do it?

First, if your live standard rating is under 1600. You're not "super strong" in tactics. That's ok, I"m not either. No one who below master level is.

Second, the number of positions where there is "nothing to do" is very, very small. There's always tactical shots to take, sometimes the tactics don't win a piece, they are merely a threat to win a positional concession, but they're still tactics.

And that's what folks in the "not yet master" club don't get. When my coach walks me through those "do nothing" positions he explains every move in terms of the tactical issues at hand. And the very fact that we don't see the tactical ideas and instead see a "do nothing position" unless they're explained is pretty much why we're not that good at this game.