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Question about OTB Tournament Rule


  • 24 months ago · Quote · #1

    mateologist

    In OTB tournaments you must record each move, but even with a couple of seconds time delay (5) after you hit the clock before your opponents clock begins, At a G/60 tournament game when both players had about a minute left for the game they BOTH stopped recording their moves in a mad scramble to try and FLAG  each other. I noticed the tournament directors observing the game. Question : did they violate any USCF rules ? and i believe only in OTB blitz tournys that you do not have to record the moves with under a minute on the clock !  THANKS    Tongue out     

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #2

    bobbyDK

    FIDE rules
    8.1 In the course of play each player is required to record his own moves and those of his opponent in the correct manner, move after move, as clearly and legibily as possible, in the algebraic notation (See Appendix C), on the scoresheet prescribed for the competition. It is forbidden to write the moves in advance, unless the player is claiming a draw according to Article 9.2, or 9.3 or adjourning a game according to the Guidelines of Adjourned Games point 1.a. A player may reply to his opponent’s move before recording it, if he so wishes. He must record his previous move before making another. Both players must record the offer of a draw on the scoresheet. (See Appendix C.13)

    8.4 If a player has less than five minutes left on his clock at some stage in a period and does not have additional time of 30 seconds or more added with each move, then for the remainder of the period he is not obliged to meet the requirements of Article 8.1. Immediately after one flag has fallen the player must update his scoresheet completely before moving a piece on the chessboard.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #3

    waffllemaster

    I didn't know both players had to record draw offers.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #4

    Meadmaker

    Under USCF rules, whenever either player's clock is under 5 minutes, neither player is obligated to keep score.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #5

    waffllemaster

    Meadmaker that doesn't make any sense.  You need to post all of 8.1 to put it in context like bobby did Undecided

    But at least now I know I need to mark draw offers heh.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #6

    Meadmaker

    waffllemaster wrote:

    Meadmaker that doesn't make any sense.  You need to post all of 8.1 to put it in context like bobby did

    But at least now I know I need to mark draw offers heh.

    8.1 is the FIDE rule, not the USCF rule.  There is no context in the USCF rule.  If one clock is under 5 minutes, neither player has to keep score. Someone else may quote the rule if they see fit.

     

    There might be an exception if 30 second increments are in use.  I know there was a lot of debate about whether or not to put in that provision.  I don't recall how it turned out.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #7

    waffllemaster

    I was being sarcastic.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #8

    mateologist

    Meadmaker wrote:

    Under USCF rules, whenever either player's clock is under 5 minutes, neither player is obligated to keep score.

    Thanks for the clarification : There were no time increments just a straight G/60 , so what is the point of the (5) second delay that is enough time to record the moves without losing time on the clock ? I like the rule because nobody wants to play 3 or 4 hours and lose because i can write algebraic notation and hit the clock faster than you can in a time crunch for both players !   

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #9

    Meadmaker

    The point of the five second delay is to avoid "insufficient losing chances".  Let me explain.

    A lot of people think that winning on time is sort of a cheap win, and that if someone has a clearly won position when the clock runs out, he shouldn't lose the game. Influenced by that line of thinking, USCF wrote a rule.  When a player's clock runs out, he can claim that he has "insufficient losing chances", which means he feel he has an obviously won game, or an obviously drawn game.. He feels that there is no way he would actually lose.   At that point, the TD is supposed to look at the board, and ignore who is actually playing whom.  He is supposed to ask himself if a Class C player would beat or draw a Master given the position on the board.  (The class C player would be playing the side whose time expired)  If he feels that a Class C player would beat or draw a master most of the time in that situation, he declares the game a draw, instead of a loss on time.

     

    Well, you can imagine how much TDs like that rule.  It puts us in a really, really, difficult situation, and someone will be guaranteed upset no matter how the TD rules.  So, to avoid that, USCF declared that if there is a delay clock in play, there is no such thing as a claim of "insufficient losing chances".  If the position really is that solid, then you ought to be able to make a move every five seconds that avoids defeat.   If not, you lose.

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #10

    mateologist

    Meadmaker wrote:

    The point of the five second delay is to avoid "insufficient losing chances".  Let me explain.

    A lot of people think that winning on time is sort of a cheap win, and that if someone has a clearly won position when the clock runs out, he shouldn't lose the game. Influenced by that line of thinking, USCF wrote a rule.  When a player's clock runs out, he can claim that he has "insufficient losing chances", which means he feel he has an obviously won game, or an obviously drawn game.. He feels that there is no way he would actually lose.   At that point, the TD is supposed to look at the board, and ignore who is actually playing whom.  He is supposed to ask himself if a Class C player would beat or draw a Master given the position on the board.  (The class C player would be playing the side whose time expired)  If he feels that a Class C player would beat or draw a master most of the time in that situation, he declares the game a draw, instead of a loss on time.

     

    Well, you can imagine how much TDs like that rule.  It puts us in a really, really, difficult situation, and someone will be guaranteed upset no matter how the TD rules.  So, to avoid that, USCF declared that if there is a delay clock in play, there is no such thing as a claim of "insufficient losing chances".  If the position really is that solid, then you ought to be able to make a move every five seconds that avoids defeat.   If not, you lose.

    That actually makes Sense !!  Surprised I know you post a lot on the USCF site about about TD and OTB tournament questions, You really do a great job !!

  • 24 months ago · Quote · #11

    Estragon

    It's not so complicated, but it is wrong to put that pressure on the TD to decide.  But the whole "Class C vs Master" analogy is just meant to state that if it is an obvious win or draw, where even a patzer could beat a master, that's the result. 

     

    No one can cut and paste the USCF Rules here because they aren't online - they make you buy a book to get them.  You don't really need the book unless you are an organizer, though. 


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