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Botvinnik was an engineer. Taimanov was a concert pianist. What did Fischer do to support his claim? (He has some odd ideas when it came to non-chess things). My guess is he saw Kasparov (current World Champion) as a threat to his reality where he (Fischer) believed he was still the world champion (or at least he liked to say so).
Fischer also said while others give 2 percent of their mental energy to chess, he gave 98%. He was certainly very talented, but he also worked harder than anyone (I believe).
Speculation on my part, sure, but when it doesn't involve chess notation I don't trust Fischer's analysis of anything :)
Or maybe I should say, I'm less than convinced because other's don't corroborate it. From what I recall other's main impressions of him are "hard to get a long with" and "amazingly brilliant player" nothing along the lines of "all around genius"
When thinking of eccentric genius in chess, current to 10 player Ivanchuk comes to mind. Highly original player (that points to some kind of general intelligence to me) and other's accounts and things I've read seem to suggest he's very smart. Of course I've never met the guy, so just more speculation on my part.
I am willing to bet, if using people who have never played chess before, of different IQ levels to play some games, to see how they compared against one another, as they played the same set of players, it would show that initially more intelligent people play better than less intelligent people. Thus they would have a higher rating than the less intelligent.
However, if you took someone with 100 IQ and had them play chess for 10 years, then compared them to a newcomber of a 125 IQ, it would probably show how experience can in some ways, negate the raw intelligence factor. This would probably be true in almost every case.
my IQ is 100 according to the online test i just gave but my rating is 1400 (IQ = 40) how is tht possible
I'm 21 my IQ is above 130 and my blitz elo is 1200 according to the notation you have mentioned 2000 +(IQ - 100) x 10
with sufficient work I can achieve 2300 elo
I have been playing for a rather long time exactly 223 blitz game and I think it's impossible for me to get to 2300 elo without being coached, I believe that even played like 10,000 games I won't be able to pass the 2000 elo range, but who knows the days might prove me wrong.
you didn't get it the notion says that the your maximum possible elo is 2000
with sufficient work you could get your elo close to 2000 and if you compare how many chess games you have played compared to a GM you will prabobly find that you haven't even reached 1% of what a GM has played in his life.
simply keep practicing and learning from the GM's games and you will certainly pass your top elo good luck.
IQ x 100 + 1000 =~ top possible rating, with many years of good coaching and study, strong desire and starting young.
( =~ means very closely equal to )
Simply not true. serious scholarly investigation of this has not yielded any meaningful correlation or suggestion that chess ability is predictive of intelligence or the other way around. There is some evidence that certain aspects of intelligence (such as memory) correlate to performance, but when non-chess specific tests are used, master level players show no better general memory skills than average population groups.
Indeed, one very highly cited paper by Bilalic and McLeod from Oxford even found that "It turned out that intelligence was not a significant factor in chess skill, and that, if anything it tended to correlate negatively with chess skill."
Chess players BELIEVE they are smarter than the average bear.
And that might be all we can reasonable say. But don't let me slow down this exciting thread. Perish the thought. Onward Christian Soldiers!
"IQ x 100 + 1000 =~ top possible rating"
= 100 x 100 + 1000
= 10000 + 1000
Person of average intelligence can reach ELO 11000 with enough work!
yes and no. practice makes perfect in chess. the more you play and study the more you learn. i believe intelligence may help help with certain tactical moves or the ability to understand their relevance. one answer= NO.........
Very Strong correlation between chess and intelligence. If you are more intelligent you can become better in chess much faster and easier. It is such a logic based game mathematical really. You will surely never find a GM with a Iq below 100 prolly higher. However never underestimate the power of will and determination can make a great difference.
Please provide a citation, because when I read the literature in peer review articles (which I've linked in this thread) the experts who actually review this stuff say otherwise.
Please find a gm or IM with a verified IQ of 85 ....
Possibly we have this the wrong way around, and it's improving at chess which improves your IQ, as opposed to needing a high IQ in the first place.
After all, chess teaches concentration, logical and lateral thinking, discipline, creativity, etc.
Has anyone claimed that the population of tournament chess players falls on the same distribution as the average population? No, that claim hasn't been made. What has been said is that within the population of tournament chess players, researchers have found no correllation between IQ and chess skill. But that is not the same as saying that there is a no correllation between IQ and being an adult tournament chess player. Is there any reason to suspect that there is a reasonable statistical chance of there being an IM or GM with an IQ of 85?
But that is not the same as saying that there is a no correllation between IQ and being an adult tournament chess player.
=thats the way it is spinned.
There is a disturbing trend to push the idea that there is no such thing as inherited intelligence and that anyone can be a genius.. Thus anyone can be a GM.IM if they study enough...
THis is what is being pushed in the media -- everyone is equal --- thus according to this belief there is no relationship between intelligence and chess rating - in fact intelligence is due to environment alone -nothing else -- so no such thing as talent - anyone can develop that.
Perhaps not on this thread but on a similar thread someone made the argument that anyone can be a genius.
If this was true -- you just need one verifiable case of an 85 IQ person who is now an im/gm. (or even increased IQ to 100 or above by learning).
Of course if the person was drunk or did test badly because of other factors it wont count.
@zxzyz, of course intelligence (of various kinds) can be inherited, but it can also be acquired. Slight tangent this, but I don't really understand why there is such an obsession with drawing a clear dividing line between "nature" and "nurture". Surely in reality, they are two sides of the same coin. What is "nature" if not inherited "nurture"? All characteristics of living beings must have evolved into existance at some stage, they can't just drop from the sky.
As regards the GM with an IQ of 85, I would suggest that even if his IQ was 85 before he learned chess, it would be a lot higher by the time he got his GM title, because surely learning about chess also improves your general intelligence. It improves and develops your mind.
The relationship between my chess rating and my IQ have some ups and downs. It was down right rocky in the past, but things are looking up...
wow... who sounds really nice...
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