I am on youtube right now.

a lot of people too..

I know right

kingchild wrote:

I defined gamesmanship,and sportmanship means sportiness,2 different concepts.

Enough anyway,we all use wikipedia.

A few points for you to consider, kingchild:

1. Use of wikipedia and google is not necessarily widespread among users of these forums. FVC123 is not the first to say explicitly that he doesn't use common, online reference material or search engines.

2. Few contributors reference their sources, so it is difficult to identify if they are making a direct use of wikipedia, etc.

3. Is use of wikipedia to answer a direct question such a bad thing?

4. The cumulative effect of Stephen's Potter's books about Gamesmanship, OneUpmanship, Golfmanship, Lifemanship, and so on has been to alter the perception of the meaning of the word sportsmanship. For many people, I have little doubt that the two terms are interchangeable - a point I alluded to by saying: "sportsmanship is the practice of using legal though dubious methods in order to win sports?"

5. There are many subtleties in English:

• being a good sport = being sporting = displaying sportsmanship
• being sporty = having sportiness = being athletic
  

If sportsmanship is being discussed with regards to chess, does that mean that chess is a sport?

artfizz wrote: Sportsmanship is conformance to the rules, spirit, and etiquette of sport. More grandly, it may be considered the ethos of sport. It is interesting that the motivation for sport is often an elusive element. Sportsmanship expresses an aspiration or ethos that the activity will be enjoyed for its own sake, with proper consideration for fairness, ethics, respect, and a sense of fellowship with one's competitors. Being a "good sport" involves being a "good winner" as well as being a "good loser". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsmanship

It was you who firstly used wikipedia in this thread as in your message above so...

yet another thread turns into an arguement

FVC123 wrote: I have asked some opponents how am i doing and some of them say i am up 1 piece how do you think your doing you idiot. some people like some encouragement.

Does FVC123's question belong in the realm of sportsmanship, at all? Or is it a matter of different (but  equally valid) attitudes towards chatting during a game of chess?

If an opponent makes an unintended move, spots his (or her) mistake instantly, and asks to be allowed to undo that move (somehow): the choice of whether to agree or not - is more arguably an issue of sportsmanship. http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/help-tracking-down-a-sportsmanship-discussion-please

I think words, meanings and pretty much anything are imprecise. Trying to put everything into one place never works. Saying that this is sportsmanship and this gamesmanship and you should do this and not that is never going to work. Everyone sees things differently. And also, since everyone seems to like using wikipedia I would just like to point out that it has millions of mistakes and so should be used as a guide and not absolute fact. Here is a blatant example: Make a search of "His name is alive" Go to the fifth paragraph of the biography. It clearly says ...British animators the Quay brothers. Click on Quay brothers. It clearly states that they are American. There are literally thousands of mistakes like this that I have found. Anyway back to sportsmanship. I think "who cares" pretty much sums up the whole complex issue. Words are imprecise and have different meanings and interpretations. People have different views on what they consider rude and what is acceptable. Nothing anyone here can say can change what people consider rude and unacceptable during a game. Therefore it is a pointless argument , therefore "who cares".

Amnesiac wrote:

... Anyway back to sportsmanship. I think "who cares" pretty much sums up the whole complex issue.

Words are imprecise and have different meanings and interpretations. People have different views on what they consider rude and what is acceptable.

artfizz: Agreed.

Nothing anyone here can say can change what people consider rude and unacceptable during a game.

artfizz: I disagree. Views are polarised but not absolutely entrenched; people sometimes move to the other side of an issue when they are presented with a new perspective.

Therefore it is a pointless argument,

artfizz: It's likely that many forum discussions about behaviour will not lead to a change in behaviour. I don't see that it makes the discussion itself pointless.

therefore "who cares".

artfizz: When people say: "who cares?", they usually mean, "I don't care." I don't have a strong opinion either way in this discussion, but I nevertheless find some value in exploring the issue.

May I ask you, FVC123: have your views changed as a result of participating in this discussion? And if so, how?

I deliberately used words like "who cares" to prove my point. The point being that I didn't use the words "I don't care" and yet others can interpret me as meaning that. I said "who cares" in a rhetorical apathetic way. Meaning the argument will get no where since people get stuck on what "who cares" means and will not find out what the whole issue is. Again the use of "pointless argument". I didn't say it was not valuable having the discussion, just that the issue will not be solved, therefore in the eyes of what most consider an argument to be, it is pointless. By saying no-one can change what they think was meant to anger people and so make them more susceptible to changing how they think of certain issues.

Boys,yous take my breath away,yous robbed my words,what the hell am I gonna sing now?wait,I'll grab my guitar and I shall be back for more,for ladies and gents you all simplly rule!!!!!

I'm on my knees,begging for more,do not give in now,for the party has not started yet,what will I do if no one turns up?

Paddy,pull the God forsaken trigger and meet your maker!

A man convinced against his will

Through all arguement he'll hold still

Hallaluya!

I tend to use the term "gamesmanship" as a pejorative to criticize behavior in a non-game setting. This is like the concept of "gaming the system" meaning trying to take advantage of a procedure or whatever to gain some advantage for yourself. This meaning is something like "inappropriately making a non-game situation into a game."

"Sportsmanship" tends to mean behaving admirably toward your opponents in the context of games. If you watch the video of Victor Korchnoi being a jackass after losing to Sophia Polgar you see a paradigm example of bad sportsmanship. Vlastimil Hort's having used one of his sick days to save Boris Spassky from forfeiting a match is an example of exceptional sportsmanship.

Frankly I don't think English usage really kowtows to the distinction many of us try to make between something being a "game" or a "sport."

I havent been monitoring this topic for a bit, but I am rather JEALOUS that ARTFIZZ hit the nail on the head before I did. GAMESMANSHIP is the correct word here.

cheater_1 wrote:

I havent been monitoring this topic for a bit, but I am rather JEALOUS that ARTFIZZ hit the nail on the head before I did. GAMESMANSHIP is the correct word here.

 It all depends on ones point of view and which planet they came from!

Duffer1965 wrote:

I tend to use the term "gamesmanship" as a pejorative to criticize behavior in a non-game setting. This is like the concept of "gaming the system" meaning trying to take advantage of a procedure or whatever to gain some advantage for yourself. This meaning is something like "inappropriately making a non-game situation into a game."

"Sportsmanship" tends to mean behaving admirably toward your opponents in the context of games. If you watch the video of Victor Korchnoi being a jackass after losing to Sophia Polgar you see a paradigm example of bad sportsmanship. Vlastimil Hort's having used one of his sick days to save Boris Spassky from forfeiting a match is an example of exceptional sportsmanship.

Frankly I don't think English usage really kowtows to the distinction many of us try to make between something being a "game" or a "sport."

Perfect comment,nothing to add..

It does not matter either way we all should have it.

to have sportsmanship? Of course!