11007 Players currently online!
Man vs. Machine - good luck!
Turn-based games at any time!
Vote for the best move to win!
Do you have what it takes?
Sharpen your tactical vision!
Get advice and game insights!
Learn from top players & pros!
View millions of master games!
Your virtual chess coach!
Perfect your opening moves!
Test your skills vs. computer!
Find the right private coach!
Can you solve it each day?
Bring it all together!
Beginners, start here!
Make friends & play team games!
News from the world of chess!
Search all Chess.com members!
Find local clubs & events!
Who's the best of your friends?
Read what members are saying!
If Steinitz could hold on to his WC title until his fifties, why couldn't Morphy do the same?
I think it's curious that you mention Steinitz "holding onto his WC title until his 50s" since he didn't win the official title until he was 49.
There was no "official" title until the formation of FIDE.
So he never held onto his title until his fifties then.
FIDE wasn't created until 1923 and had no say in the title. Steinitz-Zuckertort was a World Championship match because they said it was, and was held in 1886, after Morphy's death, because anybody claiming to be WC while Morphy lived would be laughed out of chess. Steinitz could claim to be WC as much as he wanted, but with Morphy alive no one would respect his claim. Morphy hadn't played publically for over 20 years and the world still recognized him as the best. Morphy never, in public nor in private, claimed to be WC nor gave a damn about "the title." And while Morphy didn't claim to be WC, the world did, and looked on him as the best until he died--the world, not Morphy.
A difficult question. Both players were innovators in the field of strategy... Morphy in the theory of open games, Steinitz in the theory of closed games.
I would put my money on Morphy.
Yes. Before chess engines came into use, chess was a creative game.
I agree, the fatal hour of this ancient game is approaching. In its modern form this game will soon die a drawing death, the inevitable victory of certainty and mechanization will leave its stamp on the fate of chess
Just wondering : do you consider that Topalov was the WC in 2005 ?
This is wrong. The world views the first official world champion as Wilhelm Steinitz. There was no official title, no way to confer that title, and no method to contest the title before Steinitz. This isn't an American view, or a Russian view, books written in just about every language state clearly that Steinitz was the first official world champion. There's some dispute about when exactly he became the official world champion, but there is no dispute that he is the first, and that Kasparov was the thirteenth world champion. Yes, Steinitz created the title, yes everyone knew Morphy was the best player in the 1850s. But Morphy was never officially the world champion.
FIDE didn't create the title, they only helped to codify the way it was run. Before 1948, the title was the personal domain of the owner. That person could set up matches and play the highest bidder, or even avoid someone if he wanted to. Steinitz, to his credit, didn't really avoid anyone if they had the money to play, but Lasker avoided Rubinstein and Nimzowitsch while Alekhine avoided Capablanca. When Alekhine died while holding the title, FIDE stepped in to run a match-play tournament to determine the next champion.
To suggest that there was no world championship because FIDE wasn't in control is just wrong. The only confusion over who actually held the world title was caused by a rift between FIDE and Kasparov. The FIDE tournaments for world champion that made champions of Kasimdzanov, Khalifman, Anand, and Topalov had little resonance with chess players. The best player in the world was Kasparov, and he didn't lose the title of World Champion until he lost a match for the title, in 2000.
The match-play champion is an unbroken line dating back to 1948. Most chess players at the time accepted that Kasparov was the legitimate world champion, and his title was lost when Kramnik defeated him in a match. Kramnik then lost his title to Anand, who has lost it to Carlsen.
The FIDE world champions from 1993-2005 won tournaments (Karpov won a consolation match), some of them quite strong tournaments. But those tournaments had no real credibity because the world champions themselves didn't even participate and because the world chess championship is traditionally decided by matches.
We'll never know for sure whether Morphy could have beaten Steinitz if he had returned to chess in the 1870s. We do know that Steinitz was playing even better chess than Morphy ever did, and that Steinitz was the first official world champion and created a method for others to claim that title in match play.
Aren't you just a ray of sunshine? Thanks for cheering me up!
Steinitz gave us 9. Nh3 in the two knights defence.
Which will happen first? Sun burns out or chess is solved? Likely, all here long dead and gone before either event transpires.
At the rate computers are going with the endgame tablebases, it is possible to calculate how long it will be before chess is solved. The current figure is ~225 years.
The idea that the rate of increase will remain constant is silly, though. Either way, it will have zero effect on anyone posting in this thread.
It was obviously not true, as we can see it today.
Ludek Pachman in this book (or at least the French translation) attributes it to Fischer. But I don't know what his source is.
This 9.Nh3 or another Nh3?
Why are directing this at me when I was refuting claims by Yereslav? I repeat--Morphy NEVER claimed to be World Champ and there is ample evidence that the world did. Morphy actually got angry when people introduced him as the "World Chess Champion." Steinitz waited until AFTER Morphy died to claim WC status--and that is an historical fact. The world hated Steinitz but couldn't field anyone who could beat him, and that's the entirety of his "official" title. I never claimed that Morphy had a title; Yereslav implied that he did, and I was refuting that claim. And did you actually read what I posted? Yereslov claimed there was no "official" title until FIDE, which as I pointed out was created over 30 years AFTER the Steinitz-Zuckertort match--so how did they obtain the "official" title? FIDE had no claim on it until after WW2 when Alekhine died with no successor to the title--so, according to Yereslov, there could be no "official" WC until Botvinnik, which is just ridiculous. Oh, and you left out 1975-1978 when mainly only the Soviets (and not all of them) considered Karpov as WC, showing that you cannot legislate the WC (after '78, though, even die-hard Fischer fans like myself had to admit that Karpov was champ). The world's strongest player is the world's strongest player, regardless what some ink on paper says. So do me a favor--save the lecture for someone like Yereslov who obviously doesn't know chess history and don't argue with someone who made the exact same points as you did.
Yep, this one. We live and learn.
I guess Fischer digged up the idea and everyone thought it was a novelty. There is a game with that line (up to 9.Nh3) in his 60 Memorable Games, without much commentary.
@ anyone sincerely contributing to the original thread : Sorry for the hijack.
3/17/2014 - Outstretched
by joshuabenhinn a few minutes ago
"At the end of the day, it's all about money"
by Talmapai a few minutes ago
I want my account banned
by Zsofia_D 4 minutes ago
Live Chess: no sound on FF
by benkku52 7 minutes ago
Chinese Language Love
by Staxusasuwish 9 minutes ago
Graphical Challenges no longer showing
by UrzaPW 9 minutes ago
How strong is Chessmaster 10th Edition?
by bobbyDK 13 minutes ago
Anand still playing well
by trotters64 17 minutes ago
Delete Account ?
by hemamalinir3 25 minutes ago
[HURT HEAL] Queen Pawn Openings w/o 1...d5
by WizardlyChess 26 minutes ago
Why Join | Chess Topics |
Help & Support |
© 2014 Chess.com
• Chess - English
We are working hard to make Chess.com available in over 70 languages. Check back over the year as we develop the technology to add more, and we will try our best to notify you when your language is ready for translating!