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The looming crisis of chess


  • 4 years ago · Quote · #1

    Laquear

    I have made several attempts at "improvements" of standard chess. At least, they are suitable for training purposes. These suggestions might prove very valuable in the future, when it's necessary to introduce amendments to chess, due to the looming crisis of Fide-chess, a crisis that is bound to follow upon the incursion of the computer brain into chess. Please have a look here, on "My variants" :

    http://hem.passagen.se/melki9/chessvar.htm

    M. Winther

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #2

    orangehonda

    You're that odd one, I remember you Smile

    Didn't you say something like you'd mastered endgames and they were easy because you knew rooks went behind passed pawns and kings needed to be activated?  I wouldn't sweat any kind of looming chess crisis.  Chess itself (and the advent of... computer brains) are much more difficult than you realize.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #3

    Laquear

    I am speaking, of course, of the elite. I know that amateurs will be able to play today's chess forever. But if the elite starts playing another variant, so will the amateurs.

    How come they don't play the King's gambit anymore? After all, it's a very active opening. Answer: Black has good defensive resources. So how long will it take until the defensive knowledge is so good in, for instance, the Marshall attack, that White refrains from playing e4?

    We mustn't let computer analysis rule chess. 

    Mats

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #4

    kwaloffer

    Laquear wrote:

    I am speaking, of course, of the elite. I know that amateurs will be able to play today's chess forever. But if the elite starts playing another variant, so will the amateurs.

    How come they don't play the King's gambit anymore? After all, it's a very active opening. Answer: Black has good defensive resources. So how long will it take until the defensive knowledge is so good in, for instance, the Marshall attack, that White refrains from playing e4?

    We mustn't let computer analysis rule chess. 

    Mats


    At elite level, that happened after 1995. 1.e4 is hardly seen in world championship chess since then, and has only a single win (the last game of Kramnik-Leko, where Kramnik left theory early against Leko's Caro-Kann).

    And yet, chess seems to be more popular than ever.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #5

    Wouter_Remmerswaal

    kwaloffer wrote:
    Laquear wrote:

    I am speaking, of course, of the elite. I know that amateurs will be able to play today's chess forever. But if the elite starts playing another variant, so will the amateurs.

    How come they don't play the King's gambit anymore? After all, it's a very active opening. Answer: Black has good defensive resources. So how long will it take until the defensive knowledge is so good in, for instance, the Marshall attack, that White refrains from playing e4?

    We mustn't let computer analysis rule chess. 

    Mats


    And yet, chess seems to be more popular than ever.


    No it isn't. Chess clubs have less members each year.
    We're from the same country, you should realise that chess is much smaller now then it was 5 years ago. The veterans die, get to old to play or stop for a differant reason and there are not many youthplayers who actually continue chess after their 18 to compensate for it.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #6

    xqsme

    "Hotposted" for Laquear chess variant's  incredibly extensive linkage !!

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #7

    Laquear

    Fezzik wrote:

    1.e4 is actually slightly more popular +2700 than 1.d4.

    Computer analysis (before the game of course) has expanded the repertoires of the top players, not narrowed it.

    Just about every concern the OP has made is either ill-founded or wrong.


    The variation tree has become very narrow, but containing very long computer lines. These long branches must be memorized.

    Earlier, it was possible to play Wiener gambit, Bird, King's gambit, Italian, Jaenich gambit, etc., etc. So one had many more choices. Today, you have to play 20 moves, or more, in well-trodden lines, to be able to hope for a little advantage. Or else, you can play Ruy Lopez with d3, or 1.b3 (Larsen) and accept equal play.

    This is a problem that makes chess more boring. Chess is losing members because of this. So they go over to chess variants, or they start playing Xiang qi.

    Mats

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #8

    Conquistador

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #9

    gambit13

     Chess is going fine. These variants of chess won't replace chess. I agree with Fezzik

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #10

    Joseph-S

    Conquistador wrote:

     


      You consistently come up with good pictures in the threads.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #11

    DrWhOz

    chess is a fascinating, accessible and popular game. I guess that computers have their role in the chess world but they are not "impossible" to beat and can become a powerful trainer tool at a high level (and not only) .

    Now we have access to all virtual stuff (games, p*rn, relationships..) but it can never replace the reality's vivid experience. 

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #12

    Laquear

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #13

    Deranged

    Laquear wrote:

    I am speaking, of course, of the elite. I know that amateurs will be able to play today's chess forever. But if the elite starts playing another variant, so will the amateurs.

    How come they don't play the King's gambit anymore? After all, it's a very active opening. Answer: Black has good defensive resources. So how long will it take until the defensive knowledge is so good in, for instance, the Marshall attack, that White refrains from playing e4?

    We mustn't let computer analysis rule chess. 

    Mats


    I play king's gambit every time I get the chance. I have played over 1000 games in total using the king's gambit, at least 20% of my total.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #14

    Latvianfan

    What are you talking about???

    Are you saying chess has been solved by computers.  It hasn't.  Furthermore, we mere humans cannot memorize the millions of millions of variations that could arise on the chess board.  Sure there may be people who study opening trees and that may be all they do.  Anyone can beat who only knows openings.  Modern masters are also a lot stronger than the masters before them.  The ideas behind positional play and even play into the endgame have changed.  There is no doubt that humans and not computers are responsible for such increase in skill.  

    You say people found "defensive resources" for the king's gambit.  True, but many of these resources were found before computers.  

    Also, computers arn't destroying chess, they are increasing the quality of play in the opening.  A new novelty or a variation can come from a chess engine.  That is a good thing.  Without the computers help, some variations might have gone unnoticed forever.  

    I'm not sure where you are coming from.  We don't need variants.  Fischer random would eliminate any use of computers in tournament play.  So one could argue that...but want is something different, I think.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #15

    Laquear

    Deranged wrote:I play king's gambit every time I get the chance. I have played over 1000 games in total using the king's gambit, at least 20% of my total.

    Patzers can play the "Raeto-Romanian opening in D major" against other patzers, and it makes no difference. 

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #16

    gambit13

    Laquear wrote:
    Deranged wrote:I play king's gambit every time I get the chance. I have played over 1000 games in total using the king's gambit, at least 20% of my total.

    Patzers can play the "Raeto-Romanian opening in D major" against other patzers, and it makes no difference. 


     Calling someone a patzer when you haven't played any games on this site is pretty ignorant, especially when deranged's rating suggests otherwise. The "crisis" of chess you see would be inevitable for your variants, assuming they were any good. Why do you create new variants of chess? Chess has survived for quite a while and will still be there in the future. Stop posting you variants of chess in the forums and find something productive to do with your time.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #17

    ivandh

    You people all have your heads in the sand. Denying the truth will not delay the inevitable. Soon Erik will have to shut this site down for lack of members. Unless we can figure out a way to combine chess with lasers, in five years people will be reminiscing about the fad that was chess, if anybody remembers it at all.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #18

    Laquear

    gambit13 wrote:
    Laquear wrote:
    Deranged wrote:I play king's gambit every time I get the chance. I have played over 1000 games in total using the king's gambit, at least 20% of my total.

    Patzers can play the "Raeto-Romanian opening in D major" against other patzers, and it makes no difference. 


     Calling someone a patzer when you haven't played any games on this site is pretty ignorant, especially when deranged's rating suggests otherwise. The "crisis" of chess you see would be inevitable for your variants, assuming they were any good. Why do you create new variants of chess? Chess has survived for quite a while and will still be there in the future. Stop posting you variants of chess in the forums and find something productive to do with your time.


    Well, my ICC rating (Secutor) is higher than Deranged's chess.com rating. and I still consider myself to be an amateur. I am speaking of the GMs, and the problems they will encounter in terms of computer preparation, etc. I know already that patzers can play any moves. Please don't repeat that argument endlessly.

    It takes no big effort to post in this forum, and I think it's fun to discuss. Why should I stop? And why is it a problem to you that somebody discusses alternative variants? Kasparov has suggested choosing a set of positions from the FRC set, and playing these intermittently. Why shouldn't Kasparov be allowed to say this? If you can't bear reading about new ideas in chess, why don't you just skip this thread. But please don't tell people to shut up, and remain tolerant toward other people's views, and hold the freedom of speech in high regard.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #19

    RetGuvvie98

    [COMMENT DELETED]
  • 4 years ago · Quote · #20

    DeathScepter

    That the information is available, and that it may be usefully applied, are two different ideas. Take for instance the dictionary ok, tons and tons of words, available for everyone, but yet most people use limited words and improper grammar. The computers may make the answers of chess come to light, but the modest human brain will not be able to handle it all save a few memorization junkie super geniuses, of which I have little interest. A good number of people cannot handle their finances or simple bathing tasks, I wouldn't worry about humans cracking the Sicilian to move 75 quite yet friend.


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