The Working Mind when Facing an Inferior Opening

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1st April 2009, 10:49pm
#1
by ogerboy
Sydney Australia
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 562

Whenever I face an unorthodox/what seems to be inferior opening, I always feel that it is my job to punish my opponent by having a quick win. So, I rush out to a quick attack, only to resign a few moves later.

Perhaps I should also add that whenever I try to control myself (getting only a modest centre, instead of pawns on e4,d4,c4,f4 etc), I still can't help but to go out for a quick attack in certainly the wrong conditions.

Has anyone else faced this problem? Is there anyway to overcome this?

1st April 2009, 11:22pm
#2
by ilocosnortevakia
laoag City Philippines
Member Since: Feb 2009
Member Points: 1

that is my problem too.

1st April 2009, 11:29pm
#3
by Niven42
West Lafayette, Indiana United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 1174

Find out what the opening is called and look it up on Wikipedia.  For most openings, they will tell you what the main line is, and how to best proceed.  Study the opening so that you'll know how to handle it.

Of course, just because an opening is not often played doesn't mean it is inferior.  You will still have to know how to refute it.

1st April 2009, 11:33pm
#4
by ogerboy
Sydney Australia
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 562
Niven42 wrote:

Of course, just because an opening is not often played doesn't mean it is inferior.  You will still have to know how to refute it.


I understand that just because it is unorthodox, it does not mean it is inferior, yet, I sometimes still get annoyed when my opponent play something like, say, double fianchetto (g3,b3, Bg2, Bb2).

1st April 2009, 11:34pm
#5
by AnthonyCG
Washington DC United States
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 2569
ogerboy wrote:

Whenever I face an unorthodox/what seems to be inferior opening, I always feel that it is my job to punish my opponent by having a quick win. So, I rush out to a quick attack, only to resign a few moves later.

Perhaps I should also add that whenever I try to control myself (getting only a modest centre, instead of pawns on e4,d4,c4,f4 etc), I still can't help but to go out for a quick attack in certainly the wrong conditions.

Has anyone else faced this problem? Is there anyway to overcome this?


Your problem is the very reason weird openings get played- they want you to be over-ambitious so that they can get the upper hand. Just keep calm and play good chess. You have plenty of time to punish them in the middlegame.
1st April 2009, 11:34pm
#6
by ReLentLess5150
Florida United States
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 91

Unorthodox openings, as you call them, in most cases are gambits.  Most are actually very sound in their objectivel.  If you move out for the "quick attack", more than likely, you're snatching sacraficed material (usually pawns) while your opponent is gaining space and position.  This is EXACTLY what your gambit opponents wants you to do.  At the same time, you're probably violating sound chess princeples by:

1.  Moving the same piece two or more times in the opening slowing down your development

2.  Not focusing on controlling the middle

3.  More interested in capturing pieces instead of squares

Play sound chess, and you'll avoid falling into gambits and gambit traps.  I know they sometimes look irresitable, (see the danish gambit) but they should be resisted.  Play the board, not the pieces.

 

Good Luck

1st April 2009, 11:41pm
#7
by ogerboy
Sydney Australia
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 562
ReLentLess5150 wrote:

Unorthodox openings, as you call them, in most cases are gambits.  Most are actually very sound in their objectivel. 

 

Good Luck


thx for ur reply, but that it is not what I mean by 'unorthdox' openings. By unorthodox, I mean openings which are self created, sound but looks dead passive (for example, not long ago, my opponent played e6 followed by d6) , or simply sound but looks dead passive.

1st April 2009, 11:53pm
#8
by yue5000
Freeport Bahamas
Member Since: Aug 2008
Member Points: 530

Well...I don't really know if my rating only happens to be move than there's

But I always end up playing against people around my rating and as soon as my rating suddenly jumps to be head of them by 50+ points,
I feel as if its impossible for me not to win the game

And then I find myself staring down the edge of my own sword -_-'

2nd April 2009, 04:00am
#9
by ogerboy
Sydney Australia
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 562
atomichicken wrote:
ogerboy wrote:
Niven42 wrote:

Of course, just because an opening is not often played doesn't mean it is inferior.  You will still have to know how to refute it.


I understand that just because it is unorthodox, it does not mean it is inferior, yet, I sometimes still get annoyed when my opponent play something like, say, double fianchetto (g3,b3, Bg2, Bb2).


That followed by e3, d3, Ne2 and Nd2 would be a reversed Hippo. Played by several World champions and strong Grandmasters as Black including Borris Spassky.


Say what?

2nd April 2009, 04:23am
#10
by threat_of_mate
Virginia United States
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 44
The problem you’re having is that you’re assuming that unorthodox openings are tactically lost; viz. rushing out for a quick attack. Our lightning-speed access to top-flight chess analysis via the internet and databases allows us to assess various openings as superior or inferior; however, most of these superiority/inferiority judgments have been made by top-class grandmasters who are capable of capitalizing on almost infinitesimal positional concessions made by their opponents. Most openings that are “unorthodox” are not forced losses, but positionally inferior lines that a GM could exploit…but it may be significantly more difficult for you or I to “refute” our opponents’ choices.
2nd April 2009, 06:37am
#11
by Underminer
United States
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 5

I find these sort of postings humorous.  I play primarily the Reti, the English, and the Nizmo-Larsen right now.  I discovered the Reti a number of years ago after reading an article on ChessCafe about the 1924 New York Tournament, and got hooked on the hypermodern school. 

Two of the three openings are looked upon as "inferior," yet were first advanced by Grandmasters.  Yes, against top flight opposition I'd probably get beat, but frankly, I don't play that many Grandmaster or even Master level opposition.  But you ought to see the faces of most folks I play otb against.  I make my first move and you can just see the utter bafflement on their faces.  That look is worth the extra effort it takes to win, and I win more often than I lose.  And frankly, I enjoy the challenges of playing them so even when I lose, I have fun.  And let's face it, it is a game.  It's supposed to be fun.  I doubt very much you're encountering that many folks here who are playing the game for a livng.

And oft time it leads to interesting post game discussions over the opening.  Unfortunately in many correspondence games I play, the opponents often quit after I make my first move, particularly when playing on chess sites where games can be deleted in their early stages without penalty.  It's sad.

2nd April 2009, 02:07pm
#12
by ogerboy
Sydney Australia
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 562
atomichicken wrote:
ogerboy wrote:
atomichicken wrote:
ogerboy wrote:
Niven42 wrote:

Of course, just because an opening is not often played doesn't mean it is inferior.  You will still have to know how to refute it.


I understand that just because it is unorthodox, it does not mean it is inferior, yet, I sometimes still get annoyed when my opponent play something like, say, double fianchetto (g3,b3, Bg2, Bb2).


That followed by e3, d3, Ne2 and Nd2 would be a reversed Hippo. Played by several World champions and strong Grandmasters as Black including Borris Spassky.


Say what?


What don't you understand?

link


no i understand - just shocked *speechless* Surprised

2nd April 2009, 06:54pm
#13
by bomtrown
Baltimore United States
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 518

each player is unique combination of strengths and weaknesses. use you strengths maybe and be aware of your weakneses. i know that whenever i go on auto pilot, i lose. i lose often!Smile

2nd April 2009, 09:03pm
#14
by Catalyst_Kh
Kharkov Ukraine
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 1077
ogerboy wrote:

Has anyone else faced this problem? Is there anyway to overcome this?


I also have the similar problem. In my case i am very often archiving advantage from the opening but later cant find the way to win with that and may even lose, so if my opponent made mistake in opening i became very greedy and want to get my edge right now and make it as huge as possible (i want to "take" too much), just to have enough much advantage to be able to win later. With time i found out that my fault (this one :)) is based mostly on incorrect evaluations. I presume that "his" move or opening line is bad and i can get an advantage (and i see the way), but i underestimate compensation that my opponent archives for my "advantage", sometimes there is no advantage or even worste, because compensation is very good. So i started to be more patient and trying to build a long term plans of exploiting opponents mistakes insteed of instant greedy. But one thing is still hard for me - i often cant determine what is best thing to do, when i see a lot of possible variations and when i really have advantage i cant find the way to win. For example in this game http://www.chess.com/echess/game.html?id=16067157 , if i was playing like in 2008, i woudnt doubt and moved 12...h5-h4 just in hope of something like 13.Qb3?? Ng3+! 14. hg hg+ 15. Kg1 c4+ -+, or with idea to make something similiar later in the game, while after 13.d3-d4 or 13.Qb2 i would get nothing at all. The point is that after my opponent played Re1-e2 i instantly became greedy, because he already gave me a lot of advantage with little opening mistakes, and the greedy may blind my mind. Even today i barely resist my wish to open up c6 bishop much more earlier in the game (d5-d4 earlier was not very good), just to "punish him" by creating very good bishop to myself.

 

May be all this will help you to better understand the reasons of your fault. :)

2nd April 2009, 10:06pm
#15
by Underminer
United States
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 5
atomichicken wrote:

The Reti and English aren't looked upon as "inferior" even at the highest level..


 You wouldn't know it from the reactions of the people I've played them against.  My theory is that with sufficient study and understanding, any opening system can get you into the middle game in decent shape.  I just finished winning a correspondence game playing the Nizmo-Larsen.  And I've just taken up that opening after reading Odessky's "Play 1. b3!"

Actually the English doesn't really get much of a reaction from folks I play against, but I still get looks of disbelief when I open 1. Nf3.  I don't know why, since from what I've garnered from looking it up online, it is actually the third most popular opening.

2nd April 2009, 10:11pm
#16
by ogerboy
Sydney Australia
Member Since: Nov 2008
Member Points: 562
Underminer wrote:
atomichicken wrote:

The Reti and English aren't looked upon as "inferior" even at the highest level..


Actually the English doesn't really get much of a reaction from folks I play against, but I still get looks of disbelief when I open 1. Nf3.  I don't know why, since from what I've garnered from looking it up online, it is actually the third most popular opening.


My ancient copy of Batsford Chess Opening by GM Raymond Keene and Gary Kasparov give black equality after a series of move against the Reti - yet I find it to be perfectly playable.

By the way, I always thought that 1.c4 was the third most popular opening?

2nd April 2009, 10:45pm
#17
by forumdelamorum
NYC United States
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 9

I find playing against the flank openings (English,Reti,b3,g3,etc.) to be very tricky.  I wouldn't call them better or worse than more 'mainstream' openings (e4,d4) but they can be very tricky.  I recently played a game,http://www.chess.com/echess/game.html?id=14558648, in which my opponent played Nf3,g3 and Bg2.  I played d5,c5 and Nc6 not realizing that after d4! I was left with the choices of playing a reverse Grunfeld which seems incredibly dangerous or going into a line of the Tarrasch QGD, something I never play as black.  I won the game in the end but I feel that my opponent outplayed me in the opening as far as steering the position away from what I was comfortable with.  Those types of transpositions are very typical of the flank openings and one of the reasons they can be so dangerous.  As far as resisting the quick attack, it would probably help to study the games of the great positional players and concentrate on the 'themes' they focus on in their games(i.e.Steintz, Capablanca,  Petrosian,  Karpov, etc.)  When you start seeing less speculative ways to win games you will find it easier to resist the impule to head for unclear complications. 

2nd April 2009, 11:18pm
#18
by Niven42
West Lafayette, Indiana United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 1174
threat_of_mate wrote:
The problem you’re having is that you’re assuming that unorthodox openings are tactically lost; viz. rushing out for a quick attack. Our lightning-speed access to top-flight chess analysis via the internet and databases allows us to assess various openings as superior or inferior; however, most of these superiority/inferiority judgments have been made by top-class grandmasters who are capable of capitalizing on almost infinitesimal positional concessions made by their opponents. Most openings that are “unorthodox” are not forced losses, but positionally inferior lines that a GM could exploit…but it may be significantly more difficult for you or I to “refute” our opponents’ choices.

 Well spoken!

2nd April 2009, 11:48pm
#19
by vicrob
Perth Australia
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 22

I find that many players are making "inferior openings".

However - newly returned to chess" - sometimes I make a real hash of the response - and so I gradually develop and exploit (and learn from my mistakes).

I don't like the quick win - unless it is thrust upon me.

3rd April 2009, 12:09am
#20
by rooperi
Pretoria South Africa
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 3715

As long as an opening is reputed to be weak, it can be played - Tartakower

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