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Viswanathan Anand vs. Veselin Topalov : Can anyone explain?


  • 5 years ago · Quote · #1

    NjallGlundubh

    Who is the current chess champion ? Who is the strongest Anand or Topalov? Will there be a match in 2009? Who is the favorite to win ? and why is there not one champion ?

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #2

    richie_and_oprah

    Anand is WC.

    Topalov is rated higher.

    Perhaps not in 09.

    Anand should be favored.

    There is one WC.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #3

    Politicalmusic

    Teshuvah wrote:

    Anand is the current champion.

    Topalov has a higher rating:

    1. Veselin Topalov (2812) born 1975, Russia
    2. Viswanathan Anand (2783) born 1969, India

    They will play later this year as I understand it.

    I don't know who is the odds on favorite. Personally I hope Anand destroys him. However I think Topalov will likely prevail.

    I don't like Topalov at all and highly suspect he is a cheater or has been in the past.


    Well... You remember Topalov took a lot of heat for accussing Kramnik of cheating after Kramnike beat him (for using too many bathroom breaks).

    http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3397

    I really like Topalov... But Anand is just so solid in matches... Topalov is definitely the underdog.  Anand destroyed Kramnik in the match before the championship...

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #5

    Kupov

    Kramnik and Kasparov are pretty good friends though. I don't know as much about chess as you do, but couldn't it have something to do with different playing styles?

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #7

    Politicalmusic

    Kupov wrote:

    Kramnik and Kasparov are pretty good friends though. I don't know as much about chess as you do, but couldn't it have something to do with different playing styles?


    Could be... but that was strange to say the least.  Beating down Kasparov is no easy task.  I will be routing for Topalov just because I want to see a new champion lol... but I think Anand is stronger when it comes down to it.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #8

    Kupov

    Reb wrote:
    Kupov wrote:

    Kramnik and Kasparov are pretty good friends though. I don't know as much about chess as you do, but couldn't it have something to do with different playing styles?


     The problem is that when Kasparov was behind in his match with Kramnik he gave a couple of very short draws with the white pieces. It just didnt appear he was trying to win at all. When he trailed Karpov even worse he fought back tooth and nail but with Kramnik he just folded like a house of cards and didnt even make a serious effort to win with the white pieces. After this match Kasparov wanted a rematch over the years which Kramnik always ducked and even started avoiding tournies in which Kasparov was playing..... more fishy business....


    Maybe he was ready for retirement? I mean this is Kasparov right, wouldn't he be the last guy to play the system like that?

    It just seems more likely that he got off to a bad start and folded.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #9

    NjallGlundubh

    From what i have seen i like Topalov's play outside what are allegations ... anything has been proven?

    Why did Kasparov split from FIDE?

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #11

    Politicalmusic

    NjallGlundubh wrote:

    From what i have seen i like Topalov's play outside what are allegations ... anything has been proven?

    Why did Kasparov split from FIDE?


    With the World Champion title in hand, Kasparov began fighting against FIDE — as Bobby Fischer had done 20 years earlier but this time from within FIDE. Beginning in 1986, he created the Grandmasters Association (GMA), an organization to represent professional chess players and give them more say in FIDE's activities. Kasparov assumed a leadership role. GMA's major achievement was in organizing a series of six World Cup tournaments for the world's top players. A somewhat uneasy relationship developed with FIDE, and a sort of truce was brokered by Bessel Kok, a Dutch businessman.

    This stand-off lasted until 1993, by which time a new challenger had qualified through the Candidates cycle for Kasparov's next World Championship defense: Nigel Short, a British Grandmaster who had defeated Karpov in a qualifying match, and then Jan Timman in the finals held in early 1993. After a confusing and compressed bidding process produced lower financial estimates than expected,[17] the world champion and his challenger decided to play outside FIDE's jurisdiction, under another organization created by Kasparov called the Professional Chess Association (PCA). This is where a great fracture in the lineage of World Champions began.

    In an interview in 2007, Kasparov would call the break with FIDE the worst mistake of his career, as it hurt the game in the long run.[18]

    Kasparov and Short were ejected from FIDE, and played their well-sponsored match in London. Kasparov won convincingly by a score of 12.5–7.5. The match considerably raised the profile of chess in the UK, with an unprecedented level of coverage on Channel 4. Meanwhile, FIDE organized a World Championship match between Jan Timman (the defeated Candidates finalist) and former World Champion Karpov (a defeated Candidates semifinalist), which Karpov won.

    There were now two World Champions: PCA champion Kasparov, and FIDE champion Karpov. The title would remain split for 13 years.

    Kasparov defended his title in a 1995 match against Viswanathan Anand at the World Trade Center in New York City. Kasparov won the match by four wins to one, with thirteen draws. It was the last World Championship to be held under the auspices of the PCA, which collapsed when Intel, one of its major backers, withdrew its sponsorship.

    Kasparov tried to organize another World Championship match, under another organization, the World Chess Association (WCA) with Linares organizer Luis Rentero. Alexei Shirov and Vladimir Kramnik played a candidates match to decide the challenger, which Shirov won in a surprising upset. But when Rentero admitted that the funds required and promised had never materialized, the WCA collapsed.

    This left Kasparov stranded, and yet another organization stepped in — BrainGames.com, headed by Raymond Keene. No match against Shirov was arranged, and talks with Anand collapsed, so a match was instead arranged against Kramnik.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #12

    NjallGlundubh

    Politicalmusic wrote:
    NjallGlundubh wrote:

    From what i have seen i like Topalov's play outside what are allegations ... anything has been proven?

    Why did Kasparov split from FIDE?


    With the World Champion title in hand, Kasparov began fighting against FIDE — as Bobby Fischer had done 20 years earlier but this time from within FIDE. Beginning in 1986, he created the Grandmasters Association (GMA), an organization to represent professional chess players and give them more say in FIDE's activities. Kasparov assumed a leadership role. GMA's major achievement was in organizing a series of six World Cup tournaments for the world's top players. A somewhat uneasy relationship developed with FIDE, and a sort of truce was brokered by Bessel Kok, a Dutch businessman.

    This stand-off lasted until 1993, by which time a new challenger had qualified through the Candidates cycle for Kasparov's next World Championship defense: Nigel Short, a British Grandmaster who had defeated Karpov in a qualifying match, and then Jan Timman in the finals held in early 1993. After a confusing and compressed bidding process produced lower financial estimates than expected,[17] the world champion and his challenger decided to play outside FIDE's jurisdiction, under another organization created by Kasparov called the Professional Chess Association (PCA). This is where a great fracture in the lineage of World Champions began.

    In an interview in 2007, Kasparov would call the break with FIDE the worst mistake of his career, as it hurt the game in the long run.[18]

    Kasparov and Short were ejected from FIDE, and played their well-sponsored match in London. Kasparov won convincingly by a score of 12.5–7.5. The match considerably raised the profile of chess in the UK, with an unprecedented level of coverage on Channel 4. Meanwhile, FIDE organized a World Championship match between Jan Timman (the defeated Candidates finalist) and former World Champion Karpov (a defeated Candidates semifinalist), which Karpov won.

    There were now two World Champions: PCA champion Kasparov, and FIDE champion Karpov. The title would remain split for 13 years.

    Kasparov defended his title in a 1995 match against Viswanathan Anand at the World Trade Center in New York City. Kasparov won the match by four wins to one, with thirteen draws. It was the last World Championship to be held under the auspices of the PCA, which collapsed when Intel, one of its major backers, withdrew its sponsorship.

    Kasparov tried to organize another World Championship match, under another organization, the World Chess Association (WCA) with Linares organizer Luis Rentero. Alexei Shirov and Vladimir Kramnik played a candidates match to decide the challenger, which Shirov won in a surprising upset. But when Rentero admitted that the funds required and promised had never materialized, the WCA collapsed.

    This left Kasparov stranded, and yet another organization stepped in — BrainGames.com, headed by Raymond Keene. No match against Shirov was arranged, and talks with Anand collapsed, so a match was instead arranged against Kramnik.


     Thanks ! For the info.....

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #13

    Kupov

    Reb wrote:
    Kupov wrote:
    Reb wrote:
    Kupov wrote:

    Kramnik and Kasparov are pretty good friends though. I don't know as much about chess as you do, but couldn't it have something to do with different playing styles?


     The problem is that when Kasparov was behind in his match with Kramnik he gave a couple of very short draws with the white pieces. It just didnt appear he was trying to win at all. When he trailed Karpov even worse he fought back tooth and nail but with Kramnik he just folded like a house of cards and didnt even make a serious effort to win with the white pieces. After this match Kasparov wanted a rematch over the years which Kramnik always ducked and even started avoiding tournies in which Kasparov was playing..... more fishy business....


    Maybe he was ready for retirement? I mean this is Kasparov right, wouldn't he be the last guy to play the system like that?

    It just seems more likely that he got off to a bad start and folded.


     He got off to a much worse start against Karpov and didnt fold. During his match with Kramnik he was going through a custody battle and many believe his mind simply wasnt on the game/match. Kasparov himself has denied this but anyone who has been through a custody battle would tell you its hard to think about or do anything else....let alone play chess at the highest levels. In any event Kramnik didnt even qualify legitimately to play Kasparov for the title but lost to Shirov in a match in which Kramnik didnt win a single game and against a man who has never beaten Kasparov !?  It just doesnt all add up...... Shirov qualified to play Kasparov by beating Kramnik but then Kramnik ends up getting the shot at Kasparov and not Shirov.  HUH ?


    It's odd for sure. I don't know Kasparov personally so I really have no idea what went on. However from what I have read about him, he simply doesn't seem like the type of guy who would play a fixed match.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #14

    NjallGlundubh

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

       Here a few games played among Kramnick , Topalov and Anand...

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #15

    NjallGlundubh

    If Anand beats Topalov who is the next guy that looks to challenge him...? There seems to be a large number of strong players coming out of China....

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #17

    fischer

    Reb wrote:

    Heres my thoughts on the upcoming match: Topalov was beaten by Kramnik and then Anand destroyed Kramnik. So, logically, Anand should win their match. If Topalov does win it certainly raises even more questions about the Kramnik/Topalov match imo. I still believe the Kramnik/Kasparov match was fixed and dont like Kramnik...


    Reb, we've been through this before. You really need to let this one go after what...nine years now? Plus, your reasoning contains no reason. In '61, Fischer-Reshevsky ended after Game 11 with the score tied. Then in '68, Korchnoi defeated Reshevsky in a Candidates match. So according to your logic, Korchnoi would have defeated Fischer in a match as well. (I doubt you'll agree to this though) Heck, we should just do away with all future World Championship matches by simply analyzing past head-to-head matches.

    We could do this in sports too. Last year, the Boston Celtics killed the LA Lakers in the Finals. This year, the Orlando Magic beat the Celtics in 7 games. So that means that the Magic should kill the Lakers and win the World Championship, right?

    ...or maybe it just means that this line of reasoning is silly.

    Kasparov didn't make excuses, so nobody else should either. (You're still allowed to hate Kramnik though)

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #18

    NjallGlundubh

    fischer wrote:
    Reb wrote:

    Heres my thoughts on the upcoming match: Topalov was beaten by Kramnik and then Anand destroyed Kramnik. So, logically, Anand should win their match. If Topalov does win it certainly raises even more questions about the Kramnik/Topalov match imo. I still believe the Kramnik/Kasparov match was fixed and dont like Kramnik...


    Reb, we've been through this before. You really need to let this one go after what...nine years now? Plus, your reasoning contains no reason. In '61, Fischer-Reshevsky ended after Game 11 with the score tied. Then in '68, Korchnoi defeated Reshevsky in a Candidates match. So according to your logic, Korchnoi would have defeated Fischer in a match as well. (I doubt you'll agree to this though) Heck, we should just do away with all future World Championship matches by simply analyzing past head-to-head matches.

    We could do this in sports too. Last year, the Boston Celtics killed the LA Lakers in the Finals. This year, the Orlando Magic beat the Celtics in 7 games. So that means that the Magic should kill the Lakers and win the World Championship, right?

    ...or maybe it just means that this line of reasoning is silly.

    Kasparov didn't make excuses, so nobody else should either. (You're still allowed to hate Kramnik though)


     It's like Boxing and MMA fights... " Styles make fights "... Some peolpe got others number and others just don't ... 

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #19

    fischer

    NjallGlundubh wrote:

     It's like Boxing and MMA fights... " Styles make fights "... Some peolpe got others number and others just don't ...


    Exactly. In Shirov's case, he had major mental obstacles to overcome (which he never did) when playing Kasparov, who had an unfailing way of getting into his head.

  • 5 years ago · Quote · #20

    Loomis

    I don't see what Kasparov/Kramnik have to do with the Anand/Topalov match. Another nice thread hijack if you've got an axe to grind I guess.

     

    I personally will be rooting for Anand over Topalov. I don't have a really good reason. Topalov just kind of gives me a bad feeling. Plus, if Anand wins it seems to be the most cut and dry. Since Topalov was kept out of the Mexico tournament, it would be nice for Anand to put the finishing touch on cementing his world championship by defeating the highest rated player in a match. If Topalov wins, then we have a triangle at the top between Topalov/Kramnik/Anand according to the latest matches. Far less satisfying to me that way.


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