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Don't get me started on lefty liberal constructs like "social", "interpersonal" or the newly fangled "emotional intelligence".
For me intelligence is raw cognitive power. Things like interpersonal intelligence involve not being an a-hole and have nothing to do with intelligence IMHO.
I had to lol with your use of IMHO!!!
Cognition involves more than one part of the brain. I don't want to diminish the abilities of GMs and all of the analytical and logical skills needed for quality chess. But understanding all the other uses of your grey matter is not a 'lefty liberal' conspiracy - a lot of good research has gone into trying to understand the whole brain.
To summarize Nash (an excellent chess player who does rate well on interpersonal intelligence ...), about the first year of learning chess is spent developing higher order thinking skills (analysis, evaluation, creating), with a lot of pattern recognition development (which often is realized as 'intuition'). But after that, a huge amount of time is poured into memorizing databases and openings, etc. Memorization is a lower order thinking skill - still important, but not what makes someone a genius. Genius would be knowing how to use all that memorized knowledge creatively.
Social interaction requires navigating far more variables and dynamics than any board game ever invented. It's a game all of us have played our entire lives, and yet still greater than nine out of ten people consider themselves inadequate at it. It's not, strictly speaking, a zero sum game. So it's hard to determine winners and losers...yet the stakes are extremely high, and the pitfalls dangerous.
Have you ever been to a high-level tournament and had any chance to interact with super GM's? Of the twenty or thirty I've had a chance to share a moment or two with in my life, maybe two weren't total social morons.
Guys like Carlsen and Kramnik aren't geniuses. They're specialized tools. While most of us were learning what it is to be human, they were learning how to better move plastic pieces around a game grid. They...like everyone who really succeeds at such endeavors...channeled their developmental energies unidirectionally. It makes them really, really good at one particular thing. It doesn't make them geniuses. It has little if anything to do with, as you say, "raw cognitive power." It has to do with having recognized and become familiar with the critical positions of the Ruy or the Catalan from the time you were four.
You want a genius in chess? Show me the guy who became the most popular guy in high school, politicked his way to positions of influence and opportunity all through college, started a successful business or ten after school, and then became a super GM after he picked up the game in adulthood.
Failing that, these guys are just monomaniacal robots with nothing else on their plate.
Becoming world-class great at any one thing isn't a function of brilliance. It's a function of focusing on that one thing to the exclusion of everything else for a long, long time.
For me being good at "politicking" is about being a backstabbing slimeball, rather than intelligent.
Anyway, to take your last point. If someone with a hypothetical IQ of 90 focused exclusively on chess for all his life, do you think he could become World Champion. In my view, to reach that level you have to be both extremely focused and highly intelligent.
I understand from your posts that your view of what comprises intelligence is extremely narrow.
To answer your question about the hypothetical 90 IQ guy, I'd say the answer depends quite heavily on how you measured that number.
By most metrics, probably not, if only because the upper reaches are going to be peppered with men who have somewhat higher cognitive abilities who ALSO spent their lives doing nothing but playing chess.
By the most evolved intelligence metrics, however, the 90 IQ is a lot more likely to become world chess champion than anyone with an IQ of say, 140 or greater. Because a person with such a high level of intelligence would be far too highly evolved socially to dedicate the necessary portion of his all-too-limited lifespan to such a trivial pursuit. When you take a more advanced psychological view of things in this way, the man of slightly-above-average intelligence is far and away the most likely to rise to "world class" in a comparitively low-reward endeavor such as chess.
The exceptions are, of course, borderline autistics who take a fancy to chess, like Fischer. Such a person can have godlike powers of comprehension, analysis, and recognition, but still be able to focus solely upon a life of trivia with no sense of loss.
I thinki players like Carlsen have a huge staff of Granmasters proviging him with variations, openings, player-profiles soup to nuts. Players like Carlsen are fed with newest comp-lines (Fischer also critizised that, as far as i remember). That means they dont need intelligence nor creativity. The only task they follow up is to recall lines, patterns and moves the up to date chessprograms gave them.This is professional sports, we only see the event, but not behind the scene.
Since an amateur has not such a staff behind working him, we have no chance.
Magnus Carlsen does not have a team of grandmasters working for him! I don't have the full details of his team, but beyond the aid of a GM-strenght second (and his dad, who takes care of the practical arrangements), I think he's more or less on his own when playing tournaments. I recommend you read the book Wonderboy by GM Simen Agdestein, if you want facts instead of conjecture.
Because a GM dad is just an afterthought...
IQ aside there are plenty of other issues such as exposure to strong chess culture that would make anyone a better chess player.
@ciljettu - No, your concept of intelligence is akin to confusing the tail for the elephant. (Well, you were the one to reference anatomy...)
M. Carlsen I.Q. level, same as the mildew growing in your bathroom wall.
Carlsen looks like a thoughtful guy, but then again, all Norwegians are like that due to the lack of sunlight during winter months... Darkness makes you moody, and moodinessis associated with intelligence, for some reason...
Similarly, happy go-lucky-people are generally regarded as "not-too-bright".
I grew up near equator, there's only 2 seasons (either sunny or look for Noah's Ark -- just non-stop rain). Thus, exposure to sunlight can't be correlated to lack of intelligence. Color or race, maybe due to pigmentation.
As to M. Carlsen's I.Q., whatever it is, let 'em be ---- as the young minds appear in pure genetic wisdom !
Well I think I am not alone in considering intelligence to be more about cognitive powers than about being a pleasant social animal who understands when his friend has the blues, or about some douchebag who knows how to arse-lick his way to the top.
The liberal left has a habit of subtly changing the meaning of language so that we can all be "equally intelligent in our own diverse way". Pseudomarxist BS.
No, you are not alone.
This is a common perception among social conservatives, who are by their very nature, socially stagnant and incapable of adaptation. It would go against your self-interest to recognize that which you can'tpossibly possess as anything worthwhile.
Maybe there's something to be said for arse licking. Where I used to work there were some people who were impressively gifted at it.
What is it with people and IQ? It's a couple of squares that you put in order and THAT is what judges your entire intelligence, prospects, willpower and essentially brainpower? What a ridiculous concept.
Stay away from things that are supposed to tell you how bright you are, if you have talents, exploit them, everyone does. Sod IQ, it's for people who like to sit about all day thinking how intelligent they are. Get on and do something.
Clejettu isn't a social conservative. He's a navel-gazing utopian lefty who believes society should foot the bill while his daughter writes poetry and plays with feathers for a living.
From an educational standpoint, intelligence is now seen as a complex mix rather than a single construct.
Aha, so the retards who come up with this crap finally wised up a bit.
Like a sugary cocktail
@Kodfish, yeah playing stupid boardgames earning millions and becoming a world renowned champion. You've achieved........
Turkishcoffee and Ciljettu, you are so right. The social engineering by the Marxist Globalists that control the western nations and are implementing a World Government would have everyone believe that noone is special and everyone is the same, nurture over nature which is not the case. Frankly I'm also suspicious of the motives of Judit Polgar's father, I suspect that the Communists searched for a born female chess prodigy and then got the father to announce he was testing a theory that anyone can be a chess genius. Talent is born not made, no matter how much training the average child gets he will never be a Magnus Carlsen or a Judit Polgar.
_yiquan_ you realize you're commenting on posts made a year ago, and you're basing your disagreements on complete guessing/personal opinion anyway.
dude....Kasparov only has like a 135 IQ.even I have a higher one than that.
this is not true. kasparov likely has a much higher iq than this. and also 135 is in fact a couple SD's from the norm, it's above the 95th percentile.
I have heard it too. Kasparov has an IQ in the 130-150 range, considering possible uncertainity. IQ is only loosely related to pure chess talent. OTOH Fischer had scored 184 in an IQ test.
The Czech with highest IQ measured ever is only class C chess player unable to make any progress.
I love how so many people claim to have astronomical iqs anonymously on the internet. how come you don't ever meet such people in real life if they are apparently so freaking common?
Internet is full of fake prodigies.
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