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What's is Magnus Carlsen's IQ?


  • 6 months ago · Quote · #381

    LoekBergman

    The thought process of course.

  • 6 months ago · Quote · #382

    fburton

    What makes a genius? An unusually developed facility for certain kinds of thought / mental processing, I guess. The point (from my pov) is that thinking ability isn't a single monolithic thing, the same in everyone only more or less developed, or capable of being developed. In a genius, one aspect or ability may be more developed than others - even, perhaps, to the detriment of others. Chess thinking encompasses a particular subset of thinking skills; what determines IQ as commonly measured encompasses another with a degree of overlap. To my mind, they are clearly not the same skills.

    An extreme case would be that of "idiots savant" who tend to have below-average IQ despite amazing facility in certain very narrow domains. I wouldn't want to suggest that top GMs are in this category, of course, but nor am I willing to assume the opposite is true - that they all have very high IQs.

  • 6 months ago · Quote · #383

    nameno1had

    fburton wrote:

    What makes a genius? An unusually developed facility for certain kinds of thought / mental processing, I guess. The point (from my pov) is that thinking ability isn't a single monolithic thing, the same in everyone only more or less developed, or capable of being developed. In a genius, one aspect or ability may be more developed than others - even, perhaps, to the detriment of others. Chess thinking encompasses a particular subset of thinking skills; what determines IQ as commonly measured encompasses another with a degree of overlap. To my mind, they are clearly not the same skills.

    An extreme case would be that of "idiots savant" who tend to have below-average IQ despite amazing facility in certain very narrow domains. I wouldn't want to suggest that top GMs are in this category, of course, but nor am I willing to assume the opposite is true - that they all have very high IQs.

    Yes, there are are usually exceptions to almost every rule. Simply based on that idea alone, we can attack pretty much anything that is potentially considered to be an absolute rule. When I look at the distributions of the 2 bell curves, it makes far more sense to me, especially as a betting man, to correlate the two.

    As far as what seperates a genius from an ordinary person are a list of things, in my opinion. Anyone one of them alone, doesn't necessarily make a person a genius but, it would be hard not to notice them as being intellectually gifted in some way. It would take some combination of these to really begin to constitute being a genius. One of them I believe is the thing that truly makes the difference between simply being gifted but, by itself, isn't anymore empowering than the others.

     1) Extreme long term memory storage, with fast and total recall (photographic memory) * For a metaphoric comparison, I equate this to a computer's hard drive

    2) Extreme abstract reasoning/problem solving ability (take note that for chessic purposes, abstract reasoning is more applicable but, geniuses seperate themselves from their peers by their problem solving or problem preventing ability. * I compare this to the RAM memory of a computer, both speed and sheer volume of information considered in conjunctivity are both keys. Part of this ties to the final idea somewhat, but in a true genius, they are intertwined and it is difficult to define one, with including some aspect of the others.

    3) This final thing is something that is probably most vital and could be argued about it's origins, etcetera but, none the less, a good computer, full of bad programming, isn't going to function well. So the quality of the information is key that is feed to the individual is key.

    How could a child prodigy have received a better quality of information than his peers, in the same classroom ? There is something special about a genius' level of awareness. Awareness is the beginning of understanding and learning, based up on that understanding.

    Due to their heightened awareness, they can extract more from something than another can. Part of it is due to their greater ability to remember and calculate at the same time, while they experience their heightened awareness. They aren't the same thing but, each of them compounds the other.

     After all, what convicts a person of what is true, or causes someone to be cognizant of anything they encounter in the first place ? Something gets our attention and makes us aware, before our minds go to work. This is more than likely hyperaccelerated, in those we consider a virtuoso. In fact, if this is missing, we might only consider the person very gifted and not truly a genius.

  • 6 months ago · Quote · #384

    Senator-Blutarsky

    I think a genius is someone that just chose not to be dumb.

  • 6 months ago · Quote · #385

    nameno1had

    Senator-Blutarsky wrote:

    I think a genius is someone that just chose not to be dumb.

    It is quite a wise choice. Whether we can agree on a benchmark constituting dumb remains to be seen but, an interesting observation, none the less...

    ...while I tend to think that geniuses don't choose their predestiny, to be what they are born as, they certainly have a choice in how they end up !!!

  • 6 months ago · Quote · #386

    Senator-Blutarsky

    Good point! and if you consider the perspective of a budding genius in school as opposed to a budding non-genius, in response to a challenging school topic:

    budding non-genius: "this is so hard! i must be dumb"

    budding genius: "this teacher hasn't a clue, i'll figure it out later"

    and they travel their respective paths.

  • 6 months ago · Quote · #387

    nameno1had

    Senator-Blutarsky wrote:

    Good point! and if you consider the perspective of a budding genius in school as opposed to a budding non-genius, in response to a challenging school topic:

    budding non-genius: "this is so hard! i must be dumb"

    budding genius: "this teacher hasn't a clue, i'll figure it out later"

    and they travel their respective paths.

    For me the latter mentioned idea has validty to a point but, I tend to think that the gifted say that.

    The genius already knows better, realizes the futility in arguing and goes threw the motions, perhaps exerting themselves as little as possible, simply to extract the credit they desire and they go about their business, biding their time until, someone will not only actually listen but, who will actually do something to address the issues, instead of replying that their hands are tied by the school board.

  • 6 months ago · Quote · #388

    fburton

    nameno1had wrote: When I look at the distributions of the 2 bell curves, it makes far more sense to me, especially as a betting man, to correlate the two.

    Fair enough. I simply wanted to point out that, in principle, similarity of distribution shape doesn't imply any particular correlation, and therefore can't be taken as proof of (or even weak evidence for) a connection.

  • 6 months ago · Quote · #389

    mybizislegit

    What makes a genius? Effort and determination. without that you can't graduate high school. yet an idiot can be a chess GM if they like the game enough and put forth the effort and determination into it. Just like a 4yr old can master a videogame. It's an interest that peaks effort and determination to succeed at all aspects of life, not IQ. 

  • 6 months ago · Quote · #390

    werffwefwwf

    I think Magnus have a lot of qualities that makes him a great chessplayer,  his basic instincts and emphaty is very high. I think that emphaty is the key to creativity. we humans have developed to become very emphatic, we just have to realise it and learn to use it. concentration is also and important factor to become good live , we can all play great games in our own comfortsones.

  • 6 months ago · Quote · #391

    indurain

    Education and intelligence Frown

    Unfortunately a lot of people assume that a given level of education is an indicator of intelligence. In my experience it is anything but.

    When I was at school, the teacher used the word "dunce" to describe one boy in our class. Clearly this chap had even less interest in the books than the rest of us. But I remember the teacher giving him a hard time.

    Outside of school this same boy was always tinkering with car engines. His interest in cars far outweighed any academic ambitions.

    Some years after we left school, those of us who had gone on to university etc could not have missed the newspaper reports showing that same boy being paid £1 million pounds in 1971 by Rolls Royce for the patent which he developed for an engine modification. The same teachers who called this boy a dunce, could only dream of that kind of money.

    Point is that intelligence has many different markers.

  • 6 months ago · Quote · #392

    Likhit1

    indurain wrote:

    Education and intelligence 

    Unfortunately a lot of people assume that a given level of education is an indicator of intelligence. In my experience it is anything but.

    When I was at school, the teacher used the word "dunce" to describe one boy in our class. Clearly this chap had even less interest in the books than the rest of us. But I remember the teacher giving him a hard time.

    Outside of school this same boy was always tinkering with car engines. His interest in cars far outweighed any academic ambitions.

    Some years after we left school, those of us who had gone on to university etc could not have missed the newspaper reports showing that same boy being paid £1 million pounds in 1971 by Rolls Royce for the patent which he developed for an engine modification. The same teachers who called this boy a dunce, could only dream of that kind of money.

    Point is that intelligence has many different markers.

    +1.Completely agree with you.Even Thomas Alva Edison and Albert Einstein's teachers called them a dunce.

  • 6 months ago · Quote · #393

    Ranaldo

    I would just like to say thank you to fburton and nameno1had for your comments you truly have made this an enjoyable reading experiance for me

  • 6 months ago · Quote · #394

    nameno1had

    Likhit1 wrote:
    indurain wrote:

    Education and intelligence 

    Unfortunately a lot of people assume that a given level of education is an indicator of intelligence. In my experience it is anything but.

    When I was at school, the teacher used the word "dunce" to describe one boy in our class. Clearly this chap had even less interest in the books than the rest of us. But I remember the teacher giving him a hard time.

    Outside of school this same boy was always tinkering with car engines. His interest in cars far outweighed any academic ambitions.

    Some years after we left school, those of us who had gone on to university etc could not have missed the newspaper reports showing that same boy being paid £1 million pounds in 1971 by Rolls Royce for the patent which he developed for an engine modification. The same teachers who called this boy a dunce, could only dream of that kind of money.

    Point is that intelligence has many different markers.

    +1.Completely agree with you.Even Thomas Alva Edison and Albert Einstein's teachers called them a dunce.

    Edison referred to Tesla as beneath him, wouldn't listen to him or pay him for his work and each in their own way were definitely geniuses, if you ask me. I'd say Tesla was the more brilliant of the two but, I have given more merit, in later years, to Edison's work. I think perhaps had Tesla lived long enough, he would have also. I think the same could be said of Edison.

    In fact, I asked myself the other day, what would the world have been like, if they'd have respected each other, taken the time to realize the relevance of their respective works and been willing to work together where applicable and be there for one another otherwise ?

  • 6 months ago · Quote · #395

    Likhit1

    nameno1had wrote:
    Likhit1 wrote:
    indurain wrote:

    Education and intelligence 

    Unfortunately a lot of people assume that a given level of education is an indicator of intelligence. In my experience it is anything but.

    When I was at school, the teacher used the word "dunce" to describe one boy in our class. Clearly this chap had even less interest in the books than the rest of us. But I remember the teacher giving him a hard time.

    Outside of school this same boy was always tinkering with car engines. His interest in cars far outweighed any academic ambitions.

    Some years after we left school, those of us who had gone on to university etc could not have missed the newspaper reports showing that same boy being paid £1 million pounds in 1971 by Rolls Royce for the patent which he developed for an engine modification. The same teachers who called this boy a dunce, could only dream of that kind of money.

    Point is that intelligence has many different markers.

    +1.Completely agree with you.Even Thomas Alva Edison and Albert Einstein's teachers called them a dunce.

    Edison referred to Tesla as beneath him, wouldn't listen to him or pay him for his work and each in their own way were definitely geniuses, if you ask me. I'd say Tesla was the more brilliant of the two but, I have given more merit, in later years, to Edison's work. I think perhaps had Tesla lived long enough, he would have also. I think the same could be said of Edison.

    In fact, I asked myself the other day, what would the world have been like, if they'd have respected each other, taken the time to realize the relevance of their respective works and been willing to work together where applicable and be there for one another otherwise ?

    True.Tesla is extremely underrated tbh.Few people know of his extraordinary brilliance with machines.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #396

    Sickwithstrategy

    I think its safe to say the highest rated chess player in history is going to be a genius.. Therefore IQ and chess ability interlink

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #397

    fburton

    Sickwithstrategy wrote:

    I think its safe to say the highest rated chess player in history is going to be a genius.. Therefore IQ and chess ability interlink

    A genius at chess for sure. I'm not yet convinced (because I haven't seen the evidence) that chess ability and IQ are particularly strongly correlated.

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #398

    btickler

    Sickwithstrategy wrote:

    I think its safe to say the highest rated chess player in history is going to be a genius.. Therefore IQ and chess ability interlink

    "I think it's safe to say that licorice and ice cream sundaes taste good...therefore licorice ice cream sundaes are everyone's favorite sundae.  So say I, and there's your proof."

    Just as ridiculous a statement.


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