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Who's the douchebag here?

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electricpawn
Krestez wrote:
bean_Fischer wrote:

I have to admit I use time tactic to my advantage. I had a game that I could easily lost. Instead of resigning, I run down my time from 3 days to a few hours for a move. Eventually, my opponent fed up with my tactic. Instead of offering a draw which I would be glad to accept, he resigned.

A dirty tactic from me. Do I feel guilty? Yes, I do. It should have been his win.

But then there is a test of patience. Don't think that a win would be presented to you in a golden plate. There are so many tactics that your opponent will do just to erase that win.

So, should I feel guilty? He can easily call me names due to my dirty tactic.

That is just ugly. I think everyone can agree that THIS is poor sportmanship. How should I have expected people agreeing with me if the posters are guys like you?

Time is a component of the game, and you have to live with it . Nothing compels a player to take a draw when they are in an inferior position and their opponent is in time trouble. And let's be fair to douchebags. They do their job efficiently without whining.

Robbels
Lou-for-you schreef:

Robbels,you play against Dutch players. They play like cruyff "professional football". I am not saying that everybody has to play like this and you can be a true gentleman, but nobody should complain about somebody who uses the rules to his advantage if he decides so.

Thanks for the cruyff reference ;) you make a fair point, but I do not fully agree. For example: like I stated before FIDE OTB rules are that players in time trouble can claim a draw when the opponent does not make attempts to win the game but just moves his rook up and down to waste time. There are some formalities and practicalities on how this should be done. To be specific, the clock needs to be stopped and the arbiter should be informed who then evaluates the position and the last moves and gives a verdict on whether it is drawn or not.

The above cannot of course be done here on chess.com. It is therefore impossible to implement such a rule. Personally I see it as a 'non-written rule' or gentelmanly conduct if you will. 

I'll take another example that is for maybe clearer to explain. I play in an interclub chess-leageu where over the year we play a half round-robin tournament with teams of 8 vs 8. Time control is 2 hours for 40 + 30min for the rest. If for some reason a player cannot be on time on the playing location, he has 30 min to show up (clock will be started though) and after that his game will be forfeited by default. Now what I could do is the following: I could show up for every game 25 minutes late, just to annoy my opponent. This is within the rules, it is allowed, so why shouldn't I? Because it is considered unsportsmanlike! It is an unwritten rule. If my team/club consists out of decent men/women they will probably be mad at me for implementing such a tactic and not want to have me on their team any more or play against them on the club. I could go to another club and to the same thing and get disliked again untill no-one wants to play with or against me. OR I could just come on time, why be a pain in the ass?

So in my view, there are some unwritten rules in the chess game that people should (they are not obliged to) follow and they stem from OTB chess. I once played a simul game against Viktor Korchnoi to celebrate the 75th birthday of my chess club. Adjacent to me was a guy who screwed up the opening completely and was lost by move 13. However he kept on playing to the disbelief and anger of the great Korchnoi, wo did finish the game however. I think he said something like: 'why do you keep stupidely playing this lost position, you cannot play chess'. 

Back to the discussion, If I come across a player that annoys me by playing a K+R vs K+R ending, I could block him and prevent playing him again as I see a lot of people suggesting in multiple topics on this site. This might solve MY problem but it does not solve THE problem. You should not play that ending to annoy & hope for blunders, that is not in the spirit off chess game. The same with people hoping and being happy with a disconnect of their opponent. I cannot recall ANYONE coming to my chess club for either inter or intra club competition and being happy that they won a point because their opponent didn't show up. People on my club want to play a 'good' game of chess and they enjoy playing. 

To conclude: If someone deliberatly employs tactics to annoy you (typing loads of abusive chat/continually offering draws in lost positions/playing out lost position for the sole reason to piss you off) he has every right to be complained about

chesshole

he kept playing because he knew you would blunder, and you did.  you're the 'douchebag' here

bean_Fischer
FES314 wrote:

If he calls u names, just block him XD

No, I can't block him in this case. Thanks for your advice.

Robbels
cjt33 schreef:
Krestez wrote:
bean_Fischer wrote:

sure its bad sportsmanship, but its not against the rules... I have had a similer situation as you were I was winning by a queen, but i really had to go... I told him I had to go and offered a draw and left, he declined it and I lost...

I agree with Krestez on this and I really don't care if it is within the rules. The rule 3 days/move is there to allow you some time to carefully assess the position and simultaneously limit the length (in days/weeks/month) of a game so things don't get out of hand. It is not there as a tool to purpously annoy your opponent and therefore imo should not be used as such. 

To be fair, you had your own douchebag as well, as the guy you describe should just accept the draw. It's within the rules, sure, but it is just not nice. It may be easy to say but if you don't want them doing stuff like that to you, don't do it to them either. The alternative: they do it, so I do it too is NEVER a good reason

netzach
Krestez wrote:

God, I guess I have to delete my account (seriously). Now I'm like the bad guy of chess.com.

Be obtuse and leave it open. Controversy hurts nobody.

heinzie

The OP is the douchebag. That wasn't hard. Did that take 8 pages?

bean_Fischer

#154, Robbels, thanks for your advice. But it's hard to resist not to use such tactic when it is in your hand.

there is no easy solution to this, it's all back to the players to resist to use it or the opponent should be aware and has some patience.

But I know it's not nice and border to wrong to use it. It's not for a real chess player.

SmyslovFan

Playing through the game, White was well justified to play on. Black's position, even a pawn up, was somewhat difficult. 

White did not have to accept a draw offer. If he did so out of some sense of fair play because of all the disconnects that would be understandable. But that presumes that White knew for certain the reason for the disconnects. But it is not reasonable to expect White to go out of his way for his opponent in a game where he has real winning chances.

The game itself is a fairly common example of a failure of technique in time pressure. If you had 2 minutes left on move 45 and had no more disconnections, you should have been able to find a draw. White played the final moves very well, and broke no conventions of etiquette by playing on.

In the future, play with an increment if your connection is iffy.

SmyslovFan
Krestez wrote:
Robbels wrote:

Let's try to make a useful contribution to this thread :)

First, some formalities. Let's have a look at FIDE chess rules and what they say, without stating that this in any means applies to the current situation. These are of course OTB rules…

Article 10: Quickplay Finish

10.1

A ‘quickplay finish’ is the phase of a game when all the (remaining) moves must be made in a limited time.

10.2

If the player, having the move, has less than two minutes left on his clock, he may claim a draw before his flag falls. He shall summon the arbiter and may stop the clocks. (See Article 6.12.b)

 

a.

If the arbiter agrees the opponent is making no effort to win the game by normal means, or that it is not possible to win by normal means, then he shall declare the game drawn. Otherwise he shall postpone his decision or reject the claim.

 

b.

If the arbiter postpones his decision, the opponent may be awarded two extra minutes and the game shall continue, if possible in the presence of an arbiter. The arbiter shall declare the final result later in the game or as soon as possible after a flag has fallen. He shall declare the game drawn if he agrees that the final position cannot be won by normal means, or that the opponent was not making sufficient attempts to win by normal means.

 

c.

If the arbiter has rejected the claim, the opponent shall be awarded two extra minutes time.

 

d.

The decision of the arbiter shall be final relating to (a), (b) and (c).

To summarize: if the opponent is making no clear attempts to win the game, but to instead race you through your flag, you can CLAIM the draw. Combined with this, OTB players are taught that continuing play in a clearly drawn position is unsportsmanlike, the same as not resigning in a completely lost position is also considered unsportsmanlike.

...

And now the current situation: Krestez claims to have about 2 minutes left on the clock on move 45 and offers a draw. On move 45 I find the position not clearly drawn yet. Blacks pawns are under threat and he has to find the correct defense. From a chess point of view I agree with his opponents decision to play on. He collects the two pawns and starts to push his own towards promotion. He finds the correct plan on moves 61 and 68 to try and block the bishop so he can move forward. Furthermore: 25 moves in two minutes in an end-game should be do-able. If you are bad at blitz, don’t get in time trouble. In conclusion I don’t think the white player is wrong here.

...

That's exactly what I was trying to tell. Under normal circumstances there was no way he could make progress since he was the one fighting for the draw. Instead he pushed the clock and waited for me to blunder.

I agree with Robbels. Your reply is wrong. White showed by the game continuation that there was indeed a way he could make progress, and he won on the board. White did not simply shuffle his pieces back and forth to mark time, he came up with a plan and executed it. This is more a function of a failure of technique in time pressure by Black than poor sportsmanship by White. 

Well, starting a thread complaining about alleged poor sportsmanship, then trying to shout everyone who disagrees with you down is indeed an example of poor sportsmanship.

bigpoison
Lou-for-you wrote:

People continue to try to enforce their own moral standards on their opponents. You have no right to complain. To win you need to mate your opponent before your time expires. Most bullet games are won purely on time. I am not 16 anymore and lose a lot of better positions on time. It is part of the game. Just learn to play faster or like me smile when you lose knowing that you were winning. I agree that there is too much cursing here.

Suggo!  Welcome back.

TheGreatOogieBoogie

This video is relevant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw1ncADC9KM

FES314
heinzie wrote:

The OP is the douchebag. That wasn't hard. Did that take 8 pages?

Lol slender good one.

No, i just photocopied the paged 8 times XD

netzach

May take 9-pages to confirm and for 'penny-to-drop'.

melogibbo

I guess I would be annoyed too if I were you, but more at my rubbish internet connection than the guy.

If I was playing someone and they were constantly disconnecting it's kinda impacting me too, especially if they know their internet is crappy, you think he's happy waiting for you all the time?
I'd have done the same thing to be honest, maybe a little douchey but I'd say serves you right for keeping me waiting for half an hour while you glue your internet cables back together. 

FES314
DAVID_CARRUTHERS wrote:
cardinal46 wrote:

166 posts! YOU ARE!

look  at ya,its a done deal now, douchebag.hahaha.who else would post a picture like that .

Yeah that's inappropriate

TheGrobe

Actually, it appears to be in a garage.

GSHAPIROY

Stay on topic with this thread please!

netzach

You want more 'douchebag' and less chit-chat?

Interesting...

ivandh
GSHAPIROY a écrit :

Stay on topic with this thread please!


Because the original topic, one person calling another a douchebag, is too interesting and important to be abandoned.

When the discussion changes subject, it's because the original topic was exhausted or is no longer interesting to the people in the thread. Otherwise people would still be talking about the original topic.

If you really, really want you can go start another topic about who is or is not a douchebag. Don't be surprised if no one is interested in that one either.