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Why do Americans like Bobby Fischer?


  • 11 months ago · #401

    chesspooljuly13

    In my opinion, Fischer had to break Spassky's will off the board before he could break it on the board. Fischer's gamesmanship off the board started before the match and his explosive temper prior to game 3, I think, was a reason he won. Spassky played one move that even Botvinnik labeled "feeble" in game 3 and it doesn't take much more than one poor move among super GMs to plant the seed of defeat. When a chess player's will and confidence are crushed, it affects his playing. He's less likely to take risks, more likely to play defensively or cautiously because he doesn't have self confidence. Chess is more than calculating moves; I think it's also the state of mind you bring to a game

  • 11 months ago · #402

    chesspooljuly13

    I really believe if Fischer had the manners of, say, Karpov or Petrosian, he never would have beaten Spassky. At the very least, it would have been a lot closer.

    Petrosian even talked about the inferiority complex that some of Fischer's opponents had for reasons that have nothing to do with chess. When a player dictates conditions off the board (lighting, the type of board and pieces to be used, where the game will be played) it's not hard to see the transition to him dictating what happens on the board. Frank Brady's biography of Fischer has great examples of this - not saying Fischer did it intentionally, but the gamesmanship started long before the first game of the Fischer/Spassky match

  • 11 months ago · #403

    onthehouse

    chesspooljuly13 wrote:

    I really believe if Fischer had the manners of, say, Karpov or Petrosian, he never would have beaten Spassky. At the very least, it would have been a lot closer.

     

    Hogwash.  Fischer won because he was the better player. He made better moves.


     

  • 11 months ago · #404

    stilzkin

    As an American I like Fischer because he was American and good. He had the same kind of arrogance with ability that you find in many important American historical figures (Mathew C. Perry, James K. Polk and Thomas Edison to name a few). He was creative, successful and a little crazy/abnormal/unorthodox. Most Americans I know love the America they love and hate the America they hate. Don't read too much into Americans hating America. Most people I've met call it a work in progress. Our president just today called America a work in progress.

    My favorite American chess player: Deep Blue

  • 11 months ago · #405

    onthehouse

    chesspooljuly13 wrote:

    Would Fischer have won the WCC without psychological warfare? That's a question worth debating

    Considering Fischer did not engage in psychological warfare, the answer to your question would have to be a definite, "Yes".

  • 11 months ago · #406

    chesspooljuly13

    He definitely did. Check out Frank Brady's biography of Fischer, a lot of which covers Fischer's match with Spassky. The mindset you have when you sit down to play a game of chess, the confidence (or lack of confidence) you have affects how you play and the moves you choose.

  • 11 months ago · #407

    onthehouse

    Fischers' antics, quirks and requests were to establish his own comfort level and were in no way a design of psychological warfare; regardless of Russian suspicions to the contrary.

  • 11 months ago · #408

    ponz111

    If he engaged in "psychological warfare" is a matter of opinion.  Also, if he did engage in those tactics it is a matter of opinion if he did so delibertly or if those things happened just because of his personality.

    I think he was under tremendous pressure to be the greatest of all time and after he actually became the greatest of all time--he was not willing to risk what he had gained by further chess.

    I don't like or dislike the person but like his games and records.

  • 11 months ago · #409

    stilzkin

    Chesspooljuly13- I don't think your question is relevant. When I was in middle school learning chess my coach told me to bring a stuffed animal, a crazy hat, decoarations on our clothes like buttons and patches (I chose aliens as my theme while we had a dragon theme, jester theme and mad hatter theme as well on our team). He encouraged us to get up and analyze the board from over our opponent's shoulder as well. He said to never discuss rules or illegal positions with our opponent but to always call over a judge. Psychology is part of chess and its your opponent's responsibility to guard himself against anything you might do that is psychological in nature. In blitz the top board of my team won 1st place at nationals because he would talk really loud and fast (allowed in blitz at this tournament) and tell them moves that he might do in the future or that the other person could have done that were better. Loud, obnoxious and in a jester hat bringing with him a tigger plush wearing a jester hat that he would sit on the table next to the chess board.

  • 11 months ago · #410

    chesspooljuly13

    Regardless of whether they were planned or not (and I think some were), they had an effect on Spassky, imo. At the opening ceremony for the match, after it was delayed due to Fischer's indecision about going, Fischer sent Lombardy, his second, to draw lots with Spassky. That had to have been a planned slight to Spassky; Fischer's excuse for not going was he was sleeping. And it worked. Spassky got so upset the match was thrown into jeopardy again. It's a credit to Spassky that he maintained a friendship with Fischer after the match, but after what the two of them had been through, I guess it's not that surprising

  • 11 months ago · #411

    chesspooljuly13

    I know psychology's a part of chess; was just wondering if Spassky would have played better without all the slights, anger and demands Fischer made off the board. Interesting observation a GM made about the 1992 Fischer-Spassky rematch. When things were going bad for Fischer, this kind of behavior took place. When Fischer was winning, it didn't. Maybe Fischer was just psyching himself up by doing all of this and wasn't intentionally trying to affect his opponent. Who knows?

  • 11 months ago · #412

    onthehouse

    chesspooljuly13 wrote:

     Fischer sent Lombardy, his second, to draw lots with Spassky. That had to have been a planned slight to Spassky; Fischer's excuse for not going was he was sleeping.

    No. Not "a planned slight to Spassky"; it's well documented Bobby Fischer stayed up 'til the wee hours of the morning and therefore regularly was a late riser. He often missed morning appointments.

  • 11 months ago · #413

    AllProHipHop

    A better question would probably have been--"Why don't ALL Americans DISLIKE Bobby Fischer?"--since I don't think you really believe that all Americans like him.

    Personally, he's never given me a reason to dislike him.  He didn't do anything any more outrageous than other famous figures. In fact, voicing unpopular opinions and having an exaggerated sense of one's own importance is practically a prerequesite of becoming a cultural icon. We EXPECT our heroes to be either crackpots or a-holes (Fischer, apparently, was both).

    But hey, if we can overlook Charlie Sheen's flaws why shouldn't we overlook Bobby's?

  • 11 months ago · #414

    chesspooljuly13

    Hahaha. Are you saying that waking up in the morning to draw lots at an opening ceremony for the World Chess Championship wasn't significant enough to warrant a late riser getting up early? I'm a late riser myself when I'm able to be but I've gotten up early or gone without sleep for things far less important than that, as I'm sure millions of other people could attest. But now, after typing all that on an iPhone, I think you were pulling my leg so feel silly for taking your comment literally

  • 11 months ago · #415

    onthehouse

    chesspooljuly13 wrote:

    Hahaha. Are you saying that waking up in the morning to draw lots at an opening ceremony for the World Chess Championship wasn't significant enough to warrant a late riser getting up early? I'm a late riser myself when I'm able to be but I've gotten up early or gone without sleep for things far less important than that, as I'm sure millions of other people could attest. But now, after typing all that on an iPhone, I think you were pulling my leg so feel silly for taking your comment literally

    Remember we're talking here about Robert James Fischer.  He almost did'nt even make it to Reykjavik to compete in 1972.

    You or I in the same situation would not miss the opening ceremonies. But Bobby played by his own rules. Sleep to him was more important than showing up for the draw.

    How much money did he forgo by not defending his title in 1975 because he was unable to get all his conditions met for the match?

    Bobby could be difficult and even very unreasonable; but he was a man of principle. If he did not get his way he 'checked out'.

    That's just who he was.


     

  • 11 months ago · #416

    chesspooljuly13

    Agree with all you said but still believe there was some brinksmanship behind that particular move. But no doubt he was a man of principle.

    A GM wrote that he was playing a game against Fischer and had walked away from the board. As he was coming back, he said he saw Fischer absent-mindedly reach for a pawn that he thought was off the board (captured) to roll around in his hand. But Fischer had accidentally picked up a rook pawn that was still on the board. The GM said there's no way Fischer knew he (the GM) had seen him pick up the pawn because of how far away he was and Fischer's concentration on the game. When the GM sat back down, Fischer played the rook pawn, which was an obvious blunder and resigned (I forget if it was right away or a move or two later.) That's integrity in spades. It wasn't a case of touching a piece with the intention of moving it; just accidentally touching a piece to fiddle with while you studied the position, and he still played it.

  • 11 months ago · #417

    chesspooljuly13

    Check out the Fischer simul game in the thread "Has Anyone Played Bobby Fischer?" Who would think to play NxP in that game? Incredible game.

  • 11 months ago · #418

    TeslasLightning

    Hate....love....mental...crazy....genius....whatever!

    Bobby was a Chess God! 

    If one day he rose from the grave, dusted himself off and walked into a bar...I for one would buy that man a beer!  And not some cheap beer. Something with a little class.

  • 11 months ago · #419

    bigpoison

    chesspooljuly13 wrote:

    He definitely did. Check out Frank Brady's biography of Fischer, a lot of which covers Fischer's match with Spassky. The mindset you have when you sit down to play a game of chess, the confidence (or lack of confidence) you have affects how you play and the moves you choose.

    Spassky wasn't some punk kid.  He was the world champ!  He probably deserves a bit of respect, don't ya' think?

  • 11 months ago · #420

    chesspooljuly13

    Agree; don't see how I'm disrespecting him by suggesting he was susceptible to the drama that followed Fischer's behavior. I'm not the first to suggest it; it's hardly a novel thought lol


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