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Why isn't copying from an opening explorer during a game considered cheating?


  • 12 months ago · Quote · #61

    Ruby-Fischer

    @Two move 

    Where is the "emotional bluster"? The only one using emotive language here seems to be you.

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #62

    TwoMove

    Far as I can see most of the posts are variations on theme "I don't like the fact opponent is researching moves". The easy answer to that is play OTB chess, or live chess at fast enough time controls.

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #63

    qrayons

    Ruby-Fischer wrote:

    I guess for higher rated players using opening books does not give much of an advantage. They know the openings anyway.

    Lower/average rated players who do not use explorere or databases will be at a disadvantage. 

    Obviously its not necessarily a losing disadvantage, someone can use an opening book, but once out of the book, the oponenet may be superior tactically or in the end game.

    If two players have the same rating then that means they play at about the same strength. If your opponent has the same rating as you but uses DBs, then his advantage in the opening must be offset by his weaknesses in the rest of the game. 

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #64

    aggressivesociopath

    I don't really get why an endgame table base is not published analysis. It is published, and it is blunt force analysis of every possible legal position. 

    A database on the other hand is simply a collection of games. 

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #65

    TwoMove

    The endgame tablebases give perfect solutions, so if allow use there is no play at all, for positions that are applicable. It is a minor issue though because positions with small enough number of peices and/or pawns are quite rare to occur in actual game.

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #66

    bobbyDK

    TwoMove skrev:

    Far as I can see most of the posts are variations on theme "I don't like the fact opponent is researching moves". The easy answer to that is play OTB chess, or live chess at fast enough time controls.

    even in otb chess you cannot be sure of that I played a variation otb that I know and I know I have been playing the same variation against an opponent suddenly after move 7 he started looking through his notation book, I stopped him from researching move 7. which I remember that he played correct last time but not this time.

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #67

    TwoMove

    In otb play what you are describing is cheating pure and simple. It's an enforcable rule in otb play, precisely because you can see them doing it.

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #68

    Lou-for-you

    I agree that nobody can check opening support. No difference between having the moves in your head or in a book or database...

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #69

    bobbyDK

    TwoMove skrev:

    In otb play what you are describing is cheating pure and simple. It's an enforcable rule in otb play, precisely because you can see them doing it.

    yes but if I left the table he would have gotten away with it.

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #70

    TwoMove

    Normally you are playing in a Tournament or Team match when playing OTB, so there is a good chance of somebody seing a person doing this. Its a clearly known and understood rule cheating when doing this in OTB games. In turn base and correspondence games there is no hope of detecting someone studying openings, and the timescale for a game is long, so you can't unlearn information that you learnt for OTB games or whatever. So there is 150 year old tradition in correspondence chess that researching isn't cheating. None of this seems to be rocket science to me Smile.

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #71

    bobbyDK

    TwoMove skrev:

    Normally you are playing in a Tournament or Team match when playing OTB, so there is a good chance of somebody seing a person doing this. Its a clearly known and understood rule cheating when doing this in OTB games. In turn base and correspondence games there is no hope of detecting someone studying openings, and the timescale for a game is long, so you can't unlearn information that you learnt for OTB games or whatever. So there is 150 year old tradition in correspondence chess that researching isn't cheating. None of this seems to be rocket science to me .

    obviously he had a bad memory since he didn't remember move 7. so somehow he unlearned it lol

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #72

    CapAnson

    The site uses a link in the game window right to the database so I assume it's not only allowed but encouraged.  I try not to look too much unless I'm playing a weird line that I wonder if it's been played before, or I reach a position I'm utterly clueless how to proceed.

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #73

    Ziryab

    If you Google "databases and their discontents," you'll find an article that discusses the rules and traditions of correspondence play. In addition, you'll find reference to other discussions where folks who are ignorant of these traditions sound off.

    http://chessskill.blogspot.com/2011/03/databases-and-their-discontents_28.html 

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #74

    bobbyDK

    the only disadvantage of playing with explorer is that the oponent can play with out any blunders since moves suggested may not be the best but they are almost 100 free of blunders.

    in otb you can win because you know a variation better than your opponent  and he may blunder because he plays a bad move.

    if people stick to the explorer they may survive the opening.

    in otb a lot of players are so good in knowing the opening that people rarely survive the opening against them.

  • 12 months ago · Quote · #75

    Ziryab

    bobbyDK wrote:

    the only disadvantage of playing with explorer is that the oponent can play with out any blunders since moves suggested may not be the best but they are almost 100 free of blunders.

     

    A little closer to 70% (and that only through seven or eight moves in most opening systems).


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