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Would Carlsen, Fischer or Kasparov achieve some draws in a match vs Philidor?

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Polar_Bear

It is implausible they could win a single game and impossible to win a match, because:

François-André Danican Philidor was the most dominant player of all eras. Hence he must have been the strongest, since top level play actually declines, as everybody indeed knows.

But the question is different: they could make a draw here and there if they were lucky. How many draws they would make in classic 24-games match?

fissionfowl

Of course there are a whole host of logical reasons as to why this isn't so. None of which are worth bringing up as your only response is reference to your "expert opinion".

But in terms of progress or decline in chess over time (at the top), the genuine "expert opinions" regularly disagree. What makes yours the one to trust over infinitely stronger players?

mariosuperlative
fissionfowl wrote:

Of course there are a whole host of logical reasons as to why this isn't so. None of which are worth bringing up as your only response is reference to your "expert opinion".

But in terms of progress or decline in chess over time (at the top), the genuine "expert opinions" regularly disagree. What makes yours the one to trust over infinitely stronger players?

Isn't the OP just sarcastically making fun of those who claim that players from older eras would stand a good chance in the top level today? 

TheGreatOogieBoogie

No just wins. 

DiogenesDue

As always in these arguments, the real question is not whether a time traveling Philidor would beat these players just showing up at a tournament (obviously not, and most people never argue this point at all), it's whether a Philidor truly immersed in today's chess environment, with today's resources, would be better or worse.  This cannot be answered.

And yes, this is just veiled sarcasm about Fischer/Karpov or Kasparov/Carlsen threads.

fissionfowl

With most other people I would agree. Polar Bear being who he is though, I actually think he was being serious.

CP6033

Ok lets set things straight a little bit. 

World's most amazing and influential players ever. 1-3 Kasparov/Carlsen/Fischer. There are very very very few others who i would say someone could reasonably stick in the top 3 ever. Emanuel lasker, Tal, and a couple of the other old guys. Philidor would have absolutely no chance, i mean Carlsen plays the engine #1 about 70% of the  time, you can't really beat that. Question, How many draws would they make? maybe one or two in Philidor was very very lucky. other then that they just beat him, are you serious????? This isn't as bad as some thread i've seen, but ok show me this guys brilliant games? Then you have some proof, though they'll probably turn out to be like Morphy's games, Morphy was a genius, but never had good enough opponents.

Polar_Bear
CP6033 wrote:

Ok lets set things straight a little bit. 

World's most amazing and influential players ever. 1-3 Kasparov/Carlsen/Fischer. There are very very very few others who i would say someone could reasonably stick in the top 3 ever. Emanuel lasker, Tal, and a couple of the other old guys. Philidor would have absolutely no chance, i mean Carlsen plays the engine #1 about 70% of the  time, you can't really beat that. Question, How many draws would they make? maybe one or two in Philidor was very very lucky. other then that they just beat him, are you serious????? This isn't as bad as some thread i've seen, but ok show me this guys brilliant games? Then you have some proof, though they'll probably turn out to be like Morphy's games, Morphy was a genius, but never had good enough opponents.

Your statement isn't in accordance with reality, Steve Collyer measured it six months ago - 20 Carlsen's last games then, and obtained quite different results:

{ Magnus Carlsen (Games: 20) }
{ Top 1 Match: 477/828 ( 57.6% )  Opponents: 452/821 ( 55.1% )}
{ Top 2 Match: 617/828 ( 74.5% )  Opponents: 594/821 ( 72.4% )}
{ Top 3 Match: 690/828 ( 83.3% )  Opponents: 667/821 ( 81.2% )}
{ Top 4 Match: 732/828 ( 88.4% )  Opponents: 709/821 ( 86.4% )}
 
Also just for your information, ancient chess master Kermuy de Legal matches computer's #1 over 90%.
CP6033

ok sure whatever, doesn't matter,  post some of this guys genius games to prove your point.

MuhammadAreez10

Is Kermuy de Legal the one who is named for the Legal's Mate/Trap?

JJZ03

Off topic, but 23492 views on this post, and only 11 comments?