LAG+PREMOVES = BS

http://www.chess.com/livechess/game.html?id=88789901

At 32 after White moves - my oponents lag goes from very good to pathetic... and the premoves start in.

In a game that I should easily have won - I lost on time... and this situation is being repeated over and over. 

script kiddies forcing lag and kicking in with time wins should be detected and banned, because this is rubbish. 

either that - or get with it chess.com and give the players the option of opting out of this crap

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/suggestions/making-premoves-optional-with-workflow

why did I lose ?  because at least 3 times in the dying seconds my oponents clock ran down to  0... and then jumped to 8 secs... then took 0.1 sec off for his premove and ran down again... repeat.   Pathetic bullet chess. 

Am I right in thinking that basically you're calling your opponent a cheat, based on your experiences in a single one-minute game?

"script kiddies forcing lag and kicking in with time wins should be detected and banned, because this is rubbish. "

Seriously? all this because you lost a bullet game?

Best you stick to internet bullet chess, you'd never survive a five hour OTB game.

no... this is because I have lost AND won many, many bullet games that have gone exactly the same way.    Sudden massive lag hits in the dying seconds in an otherwise lag free game - at the same time as a player starts premoving all over the place. 

I'm raising it because this was a particularly pathetic example that got me steamed up.  I have no issue getting done in a Bullet match as long as its on the up

There is a very big hole in the way these games are conducted and I'd like to see it filled.  

"Best you stick to internet bullet chess, you'd never survive a five hour OTB game."  - of course, because you can judge that based on the fact that I got pissed off enough to raise a problem with bullet games ?

"Best you stick to internet bullet chess, you'd never survive a five hour OTB game."  - of course, because you can judge that based on the fact that I got pissed off enough to raise a problem with bullet games ?"

That and the fact that you've started swearing (in public) seems to be a fair indicator of your delicate nature.

sorry, did you have a point to make ? 

MY point is that there are players out there actively taking advantage of sudden bouts of lag and premoves in a way that is detrimental to bullet games and Live Chess.   Feel free to disagree with it if you like, but I've played something approaching 6000 bullet games on chess.com and I'm calling it as I see it. 

if my delicate nature offends - I'm almost certain I don't care :) 

"sorry, did you have a point to make ? "

Yes, I did have a point to make (see post#3)... that you shouldn't publicly accuse people of cheating based on a single bullet game.

"MY point is that there are players out there actively taking advantage of sudden bouts of lag and premoves in a way that is detrimental to bullet games and Live Chess.   Feel free to disagree with it if you like, but I've played something approaching 6000 bullet games on chess.com and I'm calling it as I see it."

http://support.chess.com/index.php?_m=tickets&_a=submit

"if my delicate nature offends - I'm almost certain I don't care :)"

At last, something on which we can agree.

""if my delicate nature offends - I'm almost certain I don't care :)"" 

"At last, something on which we agree." 

Great!  We can move on then... and I can get back to the point of this thread. 

LAG + PREMOVES are a very bad mix for bullet matches in Live Chess and open to abuse. 

Personally, I believe they can be: 

a) optioned, so that we have the choice to play games with premoves or without.

b) or bullet matches forfeited due to Lag if there is a significant enough degradation during a game

I play with Premoves disabled.  Personally, I think they're a blight on the game - and if I had a choice I'd actively avoid players with premoves turned on - as would many others

its online bullet chess, the only reason they even last more than 30 moves is because of pre-moves. honestly the best advice is to get over it, if you dont like it then play longer games or find a local club to play OTB.

why?  I've been playing online chess without premoves for 10 years... why would I want to just "get over it" ?

Premoves are terrible - particularly for bullet. 

Premoves, when used with lag, are devastating to live chess and can make bullet matches pointless.

 I don't know where they sprang from or why they're forced upon us - but I do know that there are options available to do something about them... I've even suggested a few http://www.chess.com/forum/view/suggestions/making-premoves-optional-with-workflow, as have others.  

Other sites offer a !premoves filter... why not chess.com ? 

This issue isn't going away any time soon: 

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/community/clock-hacking

 http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/time-lag-cheats

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/livechess/live-chess-lag-problems-solved

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/suggestions/live-lag

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/livechess/lets-ban-premoves

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/pre-moves-apartheid-required

I've been applying this to 1-0 games, i see how 1-2 or such type games this would be really lame.

Lag is one of the reasons premoves should not be allowed, it is unfair when the opponents clock runs out and then you think the game is over and you won, but wrong it is not over you did not win your clock is running, and you waste time b/c of your opponents lag.

I doubt that he was cheating, but lag is why premoves should not be allowed b/c the clock keeps adding time.

This lag/premove cr.p is part of the reason why I gave up on bullet. The main reason is that I play it very badly!

I half agree with Ethicsgradient.

I agree that if someone is clearly manipulating the lag bar to his/her advantage, then that player should be forced to resign the game with a warning from chess.com staff.

However, I do not agree that premoves should be taken out of the game. All of the good chess sites (chess.com, chesscube, FICS) have premoves, and that is what makes a bullet game fun. I hate clicking a piece slightly before it's my move and having to drop the piece and pick it up again all because I picked it up too early.

I'm unclear why not.  It seems that while there's a clear advantage as far as managing your remaining time goes, it also represents significantly more risk than just a single pre-move.

Is there some other reason?

Premove, in chess, refers to the act of making a move before it is your turn to move. This option is available on chess websites such as theInternet Chess Club and FICS. To use premove, you simply make a move in the same way you would move if it was your turn. After your opponent makes his move, your move will be made in 0.1 seconds, assuming that the move is legal. Premove is not available in OTB (Over the board) chess. 

I think that premoves are okay, it is just that I think it shouldn't use up .1 of a second of your time.