700 year old puzzle

Jump to forum:
« Previous | 1 2 | Next » | Last Post
8th April 2008, 07:20am
#1
by WyoKid
Worland, Wyoming United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 108

The following problem comes from the Bonus Socius (Good Companion) Manuscript dated to the 13th century.  While white has a clear and easy win and a number of moves lead to mate in 3, only one move leads to mate in two.  Can you find it?  

White to move and mate in 2. 


8th April 2008, 07:24am
#2
by Jythier
Rhode Island United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 191
Does it matter what waiting move you play?  I tried moving Ke2... wouldn't that net the same result?
8th April 2008, 07:29am
#3
by cuendillar
Stockholm Sweden
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 823
An interesting curiosity is that the pieces moved differently back then, except for - king, rook and knight!
8th April 2008, 07:29am
#4
by WyoKid
Worland, Wyoming United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 108
Yes it matters. If you play Ke2 then black can play 1...Nf7 and if 2. Rh8 then ... Nxh8 or if 2. Ra8 then the king can move to the 7th rank and the Knight shields the King. 
8th April 2008, 07:46am
#5
by ster14
athens Greece
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 145
???whats the problem Ke2?!he loses his knight and mate in 4moves!
8th April 2008, 07:49am
#6
by ster14
athens Greece
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 145
sorry...i did not see that it is mate in 2..
8th April 2008, 08:01am
#7
by madpawn
London England
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 722

As I said before, its sometimes the subtle moves that we miss, since our minds are tuned to the more aggressive moves. I really learned a lot from this puzzle. Thanks!


8th April 2008, 08:45am
#8
by themirrortwin
Chapel Hill, NC United States
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 93
lol, I liked this puzzle.  Although, I presonally would have played Rd7+ then taken the knight, then mate.  But.. this way works too.
8th April 2008, 09:17am
#9
by Escapest_Pawn
MISSOULA,MT United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 753

What a clever puzzle to be composed between inquisitions.  It's nice to know spare time existed for the "right thinking" crowd back then.


8th April 2008, 09:23am
#10
by AlgoFlash
Montreal Canada
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 108
  Really an excellent puzzle!
8th April 2008, 09:35am
#11
by dvwork
Phoenix United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 83
The reason that only Rhg7 works is that any other move that may result in checkmate does NOT GAURANTEE mate in only TWO moves.  That is the challenge of the puzzle.  It is no great effort to just win a game that is in a strong winning position, the challenge is to do it in as few moves as possible.  If you want some great reading about that philosophy try a fun novel by Orson Card, "Ender's Game."  It won't teach you about chess, but it will teach you about strategy.
8th April 2008, 10:02am
#12
by 46and2
Albuquerque, NM United States
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 1
Peter, the Knight could block the check on the 8th file without the waiting move.
8th April 2008, 10:04am
#13
by peter_doherty13
Derry Northern Ireland
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 3
Only seen that there now and realised how stupid that suggestion was.
8th April 2008, 10:06am
#14
by Escapest_Pawn
MISSOULA,MT United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 753
cuendillar wrote: An interesting curiosity is that the pieces moved differently back then, except for - king, rook and knight!

I know this to be true, but I am not sure exactly how they moved.  I think, from memory of what I read at some time,

queen moved 1 square diagonally

Bishop  2 squares diagonally, may have had choice of 1 or 2, do not know

pawn just one forward (no choice of 2 on 1st move) and (again I think) captured diagonally as today.  En passant obviously did not exist.

No castling.

I know nothing of pawn promoting.

Before, and even shortly after the rule change, mid to early 1400's, the king had to move if in check, ie no interposition although capturing the offending piece might have been permitted.

Does anyone know the truth?  I am no authority.  I once played a Japanese chess where the "knights" could not move backwards and good stategy was to leave them unmoved through the game. 


8th April 2008, 10:08am
#15
by hahaha14
wallington England
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 235
nice !
8th April 2008, 10:12am
#16
by dalmatinac
Croatia
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 3201
easy...but nice
8th April 2008, 10:29am
#17
by cwcaesar
Tennessee United States
Member Since: Mar 2008
Member Points: 90

Here is a link to the way that chess was played several centuries ago. What a weak piece the Chancellor (Queen) was!!

http://www.ancientchess.com/pages/rules-ancient.htm


8th April 2008, 12:38pm
#18
by Escapest_Pawn
MISSOULA,MT United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 753
Thank you cwceaser.  It was indeed an interesting description and complete.  I was surprised to see that I was generally right although they give no mention of the king having to move if checked, ie interposition and possibly even capture not legal.  I assume their assumption is correct that the ancient Persian game and medieval Europian games were played the same.
8th April 2008, 05:16pm
#19
by MystirS
Florida United States
Member Since: Apr 2008
Member Points: 17
Very cool and extremely helpful for a newbie like me.
8th April 2008, 07:04pm
#20
by WyoKid
Worland, Wyoming United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 108
Kc2 and Ke2 while winning fail to mate in 2.  On these moves black can play 1...Nf7 and if 2. Rh8+ then ... Nxh8 or if 2. Ra8+ then the king can move to the 7th rank and the Knight shields the King. 
« Previous | 1 2 | Next » | Last Post

Add your comment:

Join Chess.com for free to add your comment! Already a member? Then login now to comment.