A Problem the Computer Couldn't Solve

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19th January 2008, 02:10am
#21
by neneko
Sweden
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 1747
It all comes down to how you view chess problems I guess. The way I was taught is that in a chess problem the pieces are just placed in that position with no regards to how they got there.
19th January 2008, 02:58am
#22
by einstein_69101
Nebraska United States
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 5367
I am guessing computer programs can't find the solution because it is not program to think about the move(s) that came up to that point.  If you take back black's last move (e7 to e5 which was the only possible move for black) and put that into a computer then the computer will find a mate for white within 2 white moves.  :)
19th January 2008, 04:25am
#23
by neneko
Sweden
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 1747
hollind wrote:

Just for interest Fritz 11 suggest.

1. +- (#2) 1.d5xe6 c7xd6 2.Qf3xb7#

2.+- (#3) 1.Qf3-c3 a7-a6 2.Qc3xc7+ Kb8-a7 3.Qc7xb7

Though not the same as the given solution I think it's also right. Well done to silentfilmstar13.


 Did you even look at what fritz gave you before you made your post? The first solution is the same as silentfilmstars but with black trying another move, no matter what move black makes it's check mate the move after that's why it's forced. The second one is mate in 3.


19th January 2008, 04:57am
#24
by piotr
Poznań Poland
Member Since: May 2007
Member Points: 388

Here's the proper FEN string for this position:

rkB5/ppp4R/3B1P2/3PpK2/8/5Q2/8/8 w - e6 0 1 

Now computers can solve it as they know it is possible to capture at e6. Notice "e6" indicating en passant square. 


19th January 2008, 05:39am
#25
by DdanN
Beau-bassin Mauritius
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 36
Sorry Bob but solution in 2 is impossible if Black plays  ...b6,...b8 or even c7xd6.In my point of view,Kc8 is a blunder and there are better moves for black.
19th January 2008, 05:57am
#26
by Pawntor
Asunción Paraguay
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 180
wut, that was a real good one.
19th January 2008, 06:18am
#27
by silentfilmstar13
Medford, OR United States
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 2143
DdanN wrote: Sorry Bob but solution in 2 is impossible if Black plays  ...b6,...b8 or even c7xd6.In my point of view,Kc8 is a blunder and there are better moves for black.

You're wrong.

19th January 2008, 01:34pm
#28
by hollind
UK Greece
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 12
neneko wrote: hollind wrote:

Just for interest Fritz 11 suggest.

1. +- (#2) 1.d5xe6 c7xd6 2.Qf3xb7#

2.+- (#3) 1.Qf3-c3 a7-a6 2.Qc3xc7+ Kb8-a7 3.Qc7xb7

Though not the same as the given solution I think it's also right. Well done to silentfilmstar13.


 Did you even look at what fritz gave you before you made your post? The first solution is the same as silentfilmstars but with black trying another move, no matter what move black makes it's check mate the move after that's why it's forced. The second one is mate in 3.


To clear up any confusion here is the purpose of my earlier post.

 

1. To demonstrate that the computer could brute force the answer when provided the correct starting information. In much the same way as shown by piotr.

2. To show that the output gave the same answer as provided by silentfilmstar13 (though the slightly different response from black differentiates the two solutions)

 3. To acknowledge silentfilmstar13's achievement and not to claim any achievement on my part but to give the credit to Fritz. 

 

The second line of the spooled output is provided simply as proof that the output comes from an engine. The same can be said for the Fritz based presentation of the moves. I am perfectly aware that the second line gives mate in 3.

 

The self effacing style of my prose (the use of the phrase "I think") was simply to imply that I would not presume to criticise Fritz's ability at calculating variations. It is simply a stylistic choice. I used the verb suggests when talking about the output from Fritz rather than solves or would play as the engine simply provides a list of alternatives when asked to analyse a position.

 

What is much more interesting is that the fact that the possibility of en passant can be deduced from the position and that computers seem unable to do this, as mentioned by einstein_96101. This, it would seem, is the real essence and beauty of the puzzle.

19th January 2008, 02:50pm
#29
by shadowslayer
Grand Rapids, Michigan United States
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 1542
I found 1, the bishup moves to b6
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