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backrank problem - black to move


  • 20 months ago · Quote · #1

    sluck72

    For some time I can't make the pgn or fen work so I will post picture instead. I will post solution in a day or so if no one found it yet.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #2

    LongIslandMark

    Not sure what the big red arrow on your pic means. Assuming it means nothing and Black to move I would try R(d7)f7 on general principles, threatening Rf1+, RxR, Rf1#

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #3

    shoopi

    I think that black's strongest threat in this position is an arabian mate, however f3 square is currently protected by white's bishop. Therefore, this looks very strong:

     



  • 20 months ago · Quote · #4

    shoopi

    Ok on second thought 1... Be4+ is very strong too. I missed the line 2. Kg1 Rg2+ 3. Kf1 Rf7+ with mate to follow.

    But, on third thought, maybe 2. Kg1 Rg2+ 3. Kh1!? then what? 3... Rxb2+ 4. kg1 Rg2+ 5. Kh1 Rd2+ 6. Kg1 Rxd1 7. Rxc7+!

    Fourth thought, 5... Re2+ instead 6. Kg1 Rxe1+ 7. Bxe1 Rxd1 and black has the upper hand.

    Fifth thought, if 3... Rxb2+ it seems white should play 4. Rxe4. So 3... Re2+ immediately looks better.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #5

    LongIslandMark

    It's presented as a puzzle, but nothing is forced (okay just makes it more fun).

    P.S. I updated the incorrect rank numbers on my previous post.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #6

    shoopi

    coneheadzombie wrote: 

    I see now that 1... Rxd1 loses.

    Anyway, that just looks like a quick variation from your computer you have there. But 7... exd5 should be quicker.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #7

    LongIslandMark

    coneheadzombie wrote:
    LongIslandMark wrote:

    nothing is forced

    Checkmate is pretty much the definition of forced, lol.

    Sorry if I was unclear - in a typical "puzzle" there is generally one main line that leads to victory with few, if any, short alternate lines. From these posts, we see there are a few possibilities, and the responses are not "forced" in the sense they have no other move, leading to more alternate lines.

    I said "okay - that makes it more fun" - meaning this was more of an "end game study" than a traditional "puzzle".

    Or were you just having fun with my ambiguous post? No harm if you were, you did include an "lol".

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #8

    sluck72

    This is the solution ct-art gave but I can see you guys had some good ideas as well. I punched in some alternatives in the pgn. When I was trying to solve it I didn't even see the move Rf7. So good find LongIslandMark.

    Sometimes I can't make fen work, today it worked but I find it a bit curious.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #9

    LongIslandMark

    My last post in this regard: "forced" vs. "not forced" - I was just trying to say this was interestingly more complex than a typical "puzzle" where there is typically only one main line of worth and the opponent has only forced moves from that one main line attack (or perhaps a few annoying or foolish moves that more quickly lead to mate or significant loss of material).

    I said "makes it more fun" in that regard. Can we drop this? It seems like a matter of semantics.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #10

    LongIslandMark

    coneheadzombie wrote:
    LongIslandMark wrote:

    [...]

    I said "makes it more fun" in that regard. Can we drop this? It seems like a matter of semantics.

    So by "typical puzzle" you mean "simple puzzle"?

    Yes, exactly. What words mean to me and what they mean to folks posting on this site (or the general chess community) are somewhat different at times. Thanks for the education.

    Also to my education, I see now my post about linking up the rooks "on general principles" was not the best post. It got the responses it deserved (none). Better would to have done the analysis and posted a line, not my knee-jerk guess. Had I done so, I could have said "I considered this, but it doesn't lead to a force mate" - or maybe just not posted the idea.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #11

    sluck72

    LongIslandMark wrote:
    coneheadzombie wrote:
    LongIslandMark wrote:

    [...]

    I said "makes it more fun" in that regard. Can we drop this? It seems like a matter of semantics.

    So by "typical puzzle" you mean "simple puzzle"?

    Yes, exactly. What words mean to me and what they mean to folks posting on this site (or the general chess community) are somewhat different at times. Thanks for the education.

    Also to my education, I see now my post about linking up the rooks "on general principles" was not the best post. It got the responses it deserved (none). Better would to have done the analysis and posted a line, not my knee-jerk guess. Had I done so, I could have said "I considered this, but it doesn't lead to a force mate" - or maybe just not posted the idea.

    I actually did comment on your move. I didn't even see the move Rdf7. Had I seen your move I hadn't discarded the Be4 move. Rdf7 definitely should be considered a candidate as it threatens mate in two moves!

    In fact looking it now I can't find a defense for white. Maybe h3, but I don't know, it looks complicated.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #12

    LongIslandMark

    @sluck72 - I did notice you commented on my suggested Rdf7 - thanks. It does threaten mate in two, but after more analysis I think after your suggested h3, or perhps Be2, it does not result in a forced mate. Most lines are not great for White, but not a forced mate.

    Mine and the continuations suggested by other posters, result in, as you say, a complicated situation. Thanks for a good end-game puzzle.

    @Cogwheel - I don't see the Rook sac for a Knight - can you spell that out for us below average players?

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #13

    Nusons

    But white is up 2 pieces already. Bad position to be in, not much you can do. I would try Knight on 8 rank a or e just to safe off the piece.

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #14

    LongIslandMark

    @cogwheel - I see Rdf7 doesn't work - you mean white is up a piece after Bd4+, winning the black rook?



  • 20 months ago · Quote · #15

    LongIslandMark

    @Cogwheel - Not sure if you are leaving that last bit off because it's obvious to you, or if it was intentionally left as an exercise for those of use that needed to learn by thinking it through. If the latter, it was appreciated. I learned a bit more figuring it out that if you had just posted it. - Thanks

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #16

    sluck72

    Wow this blew me totally out of the water. Didn't see that white had this threat. I was only thinking of white position in the light of defense of blacks threats but white has threats of his own! Good find both of you. Cool

  • 20 months ago · Quote · #17

    sluck72

    Cogwheel wrote:

    If you're thinking 1. Rdf7

    I don't think you're correct about Be2 line tho. White wouldn't take on e2.



  • 20 months ago · Quote · #18

    LongIslandMark

    Cogwheel wrote:

    Of course, I missed that line. Thanks. Yes, I left it out as an exercise for you, Mark.

    Thanks - now I feel special!


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