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Cool retrograde puzzle


  • 8 months ago · Quote · #1

    -waller-

    People may have seen this one before.

    -No piece has moved from a white square to a black one, and vice versa.

    -The White king has made under 14 moves.

    Prove that a promotion has taken place.

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #2

    rooperi

    Ok, my 1st thought is all the knights must have been captured on their starting squares without moving.....

    [edit] TheMouse was too fast for me....]

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #3

    -waller-

    Wow that was quick The Mouse! One slight omission:

    It could have been a bishop, queen or rook that had captured the knight, but it would have to have been a promoted one!

    But essentially the same.

    Well, I'll give you another one:

    A white bishop has been knocked off the board, from either the e3 or e4 square. You did not see which - but can you deduce it?

    Its another monochromatic by the way (game where no piece moves from a white to black square, or vice versa).

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #4

    JageColorTone

    Hmm...lots of things here...I just think it out as I type...

     

    It seems that white and black start with only three pieces each (besides pawns) that can take on black squares at all. One, the c1 bishop,  never moved, so it could not have taken back, so there's one imbalance. The king could never have taken back (no access) so the only white piece which could have taken the piece which took white's c1 bishop would be his a1 rook, before being taken in turn. The white king could have done some work in black's camp, but now I see the importance of the 14 move thing, because he has had to spend at least some taking the piece which took his knight, etc.

     

    Ooh! Something else...the only piece which could have taken white's black rook and bishop would have been his queen, as the bishop (obviously) and rook (amazingly) could never have gotten there. So black's queen would have had to take them both...no, scratch that, she wouldn't have had to take both, as the a1 rook has almost certainly been lifted via a4...Oh, I got it now!

     

    Black's b8 knight could obviously never have moved, and the only (non-promoted white piece) which COULD HAVE taken it would be the king (even with a lift, the a1 rook can't access that rank. Now, while he COULD have done that and gotten all the way back to his current starting position (exactly 14 moves) he couldn't also have taken black's pieces which took his rook and g1 knight, so he has (I think) very probably had to promote at least one of his other pawns that start on black squares.

     

    edit: !ow, lots of people posted as I meandered! Cool puzzle.

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #5

    -waller-

    Nice work Jage, you pretty much got it with your last paragraph. Notice its a lot simpler as I specified the king has made under 14 moves.

    (white text)

    He could have taken Black pieces on his way to b8 otherwise. But it has to be a promoted piece that takes the b8 knight, or else a pawn, which then promotes.

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #6

    JageColorTone

    Oh, jeez...I glossed by that "under!" Ergo , the position is impossible without benefit of a promotion. Simpler.

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #7

    jetfighter13

    Can someone post a logical game that has an end postion like the one below

    The last four half moves are given

    After you have done that, have an engine complete an analysis

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #8

    doodinthemood

    ....how did you even manage to mess up like that?

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #9

    -waller-

    ???

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #10

    jetfighter13

    darnit let me try again

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #11

    jetfighter13

    I posted it and it works so I want to see a game with that position

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #12

    JMB2010

    but jetfighter13    Qxe4#

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #13

    jetfighter13

    you are right, do'h remove the g5 knight then

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #14

    frrixz

    rooperi wrote:

     ...

    [edit] TheMouse was too fast for me....]


    ?

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #15

    -waller-

    TheMouse since closed his account, as a result all of his posts are deleted. Personally I think its silly and throws a lot out of context, but hey.

    Anyone want to venture a solution to the second puzzle?

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #16

    jetfighter13

    remember that the knight on g5 is not soposed to exisist or however you spell that word

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #17

    -waller-

    I was talking about my second puzzle actually. (Post #3)

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #18

    jetfighter13

    oh yeah duh ( I knew that lol)

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #19

    jetfighter13

    Here is the last few moves aproxamately of a game I played After school against a group of friends. 

    I won, but they failed to see through it attempt at victory. I do remember it was a Ruy Lopez game where I pushed both my c and a pawns forward two my d pawn to d3 and he played the 3. a6 variation.

  • 8 months ago · Quote · #20

    frrixz

    On puzzle 2: Your position is impossible with only monochromatic moves, because all the pieces stuck on dark squares that are allowed to move are gone. There must be at least one piece on a dark square that has moved, in order to eliminate the last of the other color. There would then be no piece allowed to take it. Obviously none of white's remaining pieces in this position can have moved.


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