# Force a Draw

• 19 months ago · Quote · #1

Can you force a draw?

• 19 months ago · Quote · #2

no

• 19 months ago · Quote · #3

Yes you can. Try again.

• 19 months ago · Quote · #4

Rudimentary.

• 19 months ago · Quote · #5

first move makes no sense, as you could take the white queen.

• 19 months ago · Quote · #6

That's the whole point laguna4ever, white is trying to force a draw & because the white king can't move it will be stalemate if it's queen is captured !
The challenge here is to force black into a situation where it must take that white queen. That is what you need to work out.

@GearyCheng - Why not take the white queen?   Because black is trying to avoid a draw so must be compelled to take the white queen.  So how are you going to do that ?

• 19 months ago · Quote · #7

Why not take the white queen?

• 19 months ago · Quote · #8
stephen_33 wrote:

That's the whole point laguna4ever, white is trying to force a draw & because the white king can't move it will be stalemate if it's queen is captured !
The challenge here is to force black into a situation where it must take that white queen. That is what you need to work out.

Thank you for helping me out there, i just analyzed the situation a bit more and it became clear. if the whites queen isn't given any movement its a stalemate nontheless.

• 19 months ago · Quote · #9
laguna4ever wrote:
stephen_33 wrote:

That's the whole point laguna4ever, white is trying to force a draw & because the white king can't move it will be stalemate if it's queen is captured !
The challenge here is to force black into a situation where it must take that white queen. That is what you need to work out.

Thank you for helping me out there, i just analyzed the situation a bit more and it became clear. if the whites queen isn't given any movement its a stalemate nontheless.

Glad to have been of help but I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the white queen not being given any movement. On the board above, that's impossible to achieve since white's queen can always take a black piece if it's hemmed in.  Or do you mean the white king ?

In the end, the white queen must be captured & black must be given no choice in this - that's the solution here.

• 19 months ago · Quote · #10

if the black took the queen the game ends drwn because the wihte can't move and there is no check on the wihte this is stalemate

• 19 months ago · Quote · #11

You wouldn't think there would be too much to discuss here...

• 19 months ago · Quote · #12
[COMMENT DELETED]
• 19 months ago · Quote · #13

I would think that any check really would draw, it just might take 50 moves for your opponent to realize this. For example, 2. Qh5+ forces a repeat. And Andy, I think there's more to discuss here then on the parham or qsfl threads, but people keep commenting on those

• 19 months ago · Quote · #14
shepi13 wrote:

I would think that any check really would draw, it just might take 50 moves for your opponent to realize this. For example, 2. Qh5+ forces a repeat. And Andy, I think there's more to discuss here then on the parham or qsfl threads, but people keep commenting on those

This is one occasion when I have to agree with the 'stuffed toy' & I hate doing that !

I just don't understand why this is giving people so much trouble - what's complicated ?

1) White is intent on forcing a draw/stalemate

2) Black is intent on avoiding this

You also need to understand that white's king is tightly corralled but not in check hence stalemate if it's queen is captured. So it's vital that you don't allow the black queen to move !  That is black's top priority - to move it's queen but the g4 pawn blocks it from interfering.

The technique is to use the white queen to drive black's king with a series of checks, towards the edge of the board at which point the black king must take the white queen in order to get out of check - it has no choice !
It is then white's move but the king can't move because it's trapped by the black queen but not in check.

That is one of the definitions of Stalemate

Sure, you can chase the black king all over the board trying to invoke the 50-move stalemate rule but sooner or later that black queen is going to be able to move to block you or even force an exchange ? Then that g4 pawn is going to promote & white has lost the game.

• 19 months ago · Quote · #15

There are plenty ways to force a repitition here without following the move order given. And as long as you're careful, you should be able to chase the king all over the board as well.

• 19 months ago · Quote · #16
shepi13 wrote:

There are plenty ways to force a repitition here without following the move order given. And as long as you're careful, you should be able to chase the king all over the board as well.

But why would you even want to shepi13 ??  This is about efficiency of moves & neatness, not to mention running the risk of blundering & handing the game over to the opponent. Never take ten moves to do what you can do in two ! - isn't that just good chess playing ?

The two moves given are perfect in that they bring about the desired result in the least number of moves possible: First, the white queen is offered for capture & black declines, then the queen presses the king against the side of the board such that the black king must take her & that is the draw because white doesn't have a legal move.

All this talk of repetition is irrelevant.

• 19 months ago · Quote · #17

But a puzzle should only have one solution, and I can solve it multiple ways. That is my point. In a real game I would play the moves given in a puzzle, but as the requirement is force a draw multiple moves work in the given position.

• 19 months ago · Quote · #18

O/k shepi13 - point taken.

Would you care to provide a diagram with a sequence of moves on this thread ?  I'm a little rusty about the exact rules of stalemate as regards repeat positions etc. but isn't it three precisely identical board positions (in any number of moves) & 50 consecutive moves without any piece taken or pawn moved - is that correct ?  Oh - & also not allowing the black queen to move.

Should be a walk in the park - do you think you can achieve that ?

I still think we're debating the chess equivalent of how many angels you can get on the head of a pin - lol.

• 19 months ago · Quote · #19

And that "stuffed toy" crack really hurt btw.

• 19 months ago · Quote · #20

elementary,my dear Watson.