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Go(wei-chi) study helps Chess players


  • 20 months ago · Quote · #1

    zazen5

    I have played chess since 2000.  In my limited experience I have seen extensive analysis of games without examining attack and defense either simultaneously or separate, in addition to tactics vs. strategy both short term and long term.  Conventional chess study reviews games but due to the constricted nature of the game it is highly difficult to say what will happen due to the none static nature of the game.  I propose that those interested also study Go, or wei-chi.  Below I have listed informative links so that those players here reading this forum may benefit from this schooling if they choose to do so:

    The reason Im posting about Go in a chess forum is I like both games, but they are different and interact mentally in different ways.  I started playing chess in 2000, didnt get serious about Go until about last year.  

    Go study I believe is profitable and this is why I study it also in terms of real world application.  In Asia Go is used to train businesspeople and military and has been for about 2500 years.  The rules are essentially unchanged since that time.  It is from this game that the term "Atari" is from, which means to put in "check".  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(game)  

    Here are some sites that will probably keep you occupied(im not kidding) for a long time, my favorites.

    http://senseis.xmp.net/?PagesForBeginners, helps explain the game a huge library of free resource for study.

    http://tsumego.tasuki.org/?page=tsumego free printable .pdf files(use these later once you understand the basics) some problems from as early as 1100 AD china.  I printed some of these out and study them on my lunchhour at work.

    http://www.u-go.net/classic/  classical files in .sgf (smart go format) sort of like a java game player on chess.com, but for Go,   files can be viewed in http://www.godrago.net/ Drago is a .sgf file reviewer, freeware, I use it for reviewing Guan Zi Pu(above on the classical Go files).

    For games, correspondence, like here at chess.com, I recommend www.dragongoserver.net , wide player base, free, site based in Sweden, in English.  Im zazen5 there too.  There is alsowww.wuzheng.me which is a newer site based in Hong Kong, also largely in chinese but with an english version now, again free correspondence.

    For live Go I use the yahoo.ca games site, and the KGS Go server, here:  http://www.gokgs.com/applet.jsp

    For reviewing problems using java applet, www.goproblems.com is an interactive intuitive site in english that is free too.

    There are plenty of .pdf files on Go floating around too on the net.

    I hope you find Go as fun and as profitable as I do.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #2

    Gniuz

    Just searched for a subject on Go, I have played chess for about 20 years now. Played Go for about 2 on and off. Go is a much harder game than chess, easy to learn almost impossible to master. Being a computer scientist I first came across Go when I was introduced to it by a tutor at uni, I understand certain things about Go like we cannot as of yet program a computer to beat a human player(unlike chess, reversi, draughts). Infact do you know that there are more scenarios in the game of Go than there are atoms in the universe - true if some what unbelievable.

     

    For playing turn based I play on OGS and for real time play I play on KGS. I have to admit that I'm pretty dreadful at the game. Any way good to see people(well you) do know about it as its mostly popular in asian countries.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #3

    zazen5

    I think Kiseido Go server is stuck up.  If a person chats on there there is almost always a moderator with an attitude.  Given that it is free I dont expect much from it, but overall KGS sucks and I play at wuzheng.me, dragongoserver.net, and gomatches.com.  kaya.gs is also overrated like KGS.  If you play on dragongoserver.net you will most likely be playing against Europeans, many Russian siberians on there.  All of these servers are free to play.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #4

    Tjornan

    Gniuz I believe the same property applies to chess, the atoms one at least.

    Go is a much more difficult game to approach for a computer since because they require brute calculation, and Go has a whopping 351 squares (correct me if I am wrong), it is nearly impossible to calculate. 

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #5

    -waller-

    Tjornan wrote:

     Go has a whopping 351 squares (correct me if I am wrong)

    361 Tongue Out

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #6

    LoekBergman

    Go has 361 points on which a stone can be put (19 x 19 grid), hence has 18x18 squares, which totals to 324. Laughing

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #7

    -waller-

    LoekBergman wrote:

    Go has 361 points on which a stone can be put (19 x 19 grid), hence has 18x18 squares, which totals to 324.

    Lol, well this is technically true I guess!

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #8

    Gniuz

    361 points as this is what we play on not the squares, is correct as you lot say (19x19) so 361 possible opening scenerios and thats just the first moveSurprised. Just started getting back into Go, played a tournament and did really bad Frown

     

    Trying to write algorithms for a Go-guessometer to try and determin a winner is hard as hell even on 9x9 board. This is hopefully my final year project as it was before I went on placement. Good to see other people have heard of it though, and if you haven't played it it's worth a look. But becareful as its easy to get sucked in as it seems so simple and you don't understand how you can go from having a safe position to instanly being whooped.

  • 19 months ago · Quote · #9

    zazen5

    Thanks for the postings of the people who have chosen to elaborate on Go and chess and machines.

    Part of the reason I play Go more often than chess is due to the flexibility and possibilities, not to mention that it is highly unlikely if you are playing a game someone is cheating.  This human element of the game gives added depth.  Not to take away from chess, however I find that the sheer volume of chess opening studies to be a paradox.  Comforting that there always is material to study, say if computers and the internet were to be wiped out, there is tons of material I could still study on chess, whereas my Go study would probably be finished as I live in Canada and I dont know anyone who plays Go.  

    With chess the other paradox is that due to the linearity of the game, one small move can destroy the whole game, which is less likely for Go, and Go is more forgiving.

    I disagree that Go is harder than chess, I think chess is much much harder in that it is harder to see behind the pieces and all the possibilities of movement, whereas with Go, everything is right there in front of you, and the pieces cannot move, they are static.  That being said, if you are a smart Go player you begin to learn how to make one move have multiple options and possibilities where if you are good, are all bad for your opponent, who very likely cannot see all the possibilities.  And the advantage of this is that unlike chess which in most cases you must respond immediately, the timing can vary enormously in how you respond.  So this human element is rewarding.

    Also, in terms of categorizing, chess is very yang, very movement oriented, and as a consequence time goes by more quickly in terms of perception, whereas with Go generally for me I find that after a match of Go, things start to seem slower, and I have more time to do things.  This may be due to a difference between Go and chess which has been shown in MRI studies.  sheng-lab.psych.umn.edu/pdf_files/Atherton_fMRI_chess.pdf   

    This same group that did the above study also published something on Go as well.

    One of the reasons that Go is also of value is that it looks so simple and yet is so complex so it also has this affect on your brain and how you appear to others:  Simple yet paradoxically baffling.


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