Incorrect puzzle

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12th February 2009, 04:45am
#1
by JRadis
Sweden
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 455

Hello I need some help with this puzzle. It is supposed to be mat in 3 moves for white I cant se that and Ive tried to make fritz solve it but I dont know how to. I would be happy if someone could help me to se if it is correct and there is mate in 3 moves. If you know how to use it computerhelp might be good.

12th February 2009, 05:11am
#2
by RetGuvvie98
Manassas, VA United States
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 3962

Edit:  

    THE Text below is WRONG, totally WRONG - although it works, there is a mate in three.  keep reading.     I was wrong again. darn it all.Frown

Hello John.  

   now to your question:   First, you notice black's king can not move, and any check is mate.  Next, how can white maneuver to 'cover' all possible escape squares while getting ready to apply checkmate.       and soon, one would give up on a mate in 3 in frustration and turn on one's engine (deep fritz 8) for instance (mine)  and find out, in about 4 seconds - that there is NO mate in 3 available if black provides good resistance.

Thus, below are the lines derived by my engine.

New game,
n7/6K1/4R3/3p4/1p1k4/8/1PQ2N2/8 w - - 0 1

Analysis by DEFECTIVE   Deep Fritz 8:

1. +- (#4): 1.Qb3 Kc5 2.Nd3+ Kd4 3.Qxb4+ Kxd3 4.Qc3#
2. +- (#4): 1.Qd2+ Kc5 2.Nd3+ Kc4 3.Qxb4+ Kxd3 4.Qc3#
3. +- (#4): 1.Qd1+ Kc5 2.Qc1+ Kd4 3.b3 Nc7 4.Qe3#
4. +- (#4): 1.Qc1 Nc7 2.Qf4+ Kc5 3.Nd3+ Kb5 4.Qxb4#

12th February 2009, 09:35am
#3
by JRadis
Sweden
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 455

Thanks!

14th February 2009, 10:30pm
#4
by Tiger-13
Sydney Australia
Member Since: Dec 2008
Member Points: 1277

HUH??!

17th February 2009, 06:06am
#5
by JRadis
Sweden
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 455

I found a puzzle. It was on a chessclubs website and I tried to solve it but it was hard...

Then I thought about putting it up here so that someone who can put it in to fritz could show the answer if there was any. It wasn't...

I have only put up a chess diagram there not a puzzle to solve.

17th February 2009, 06:20am
#6
by Evil_Homer
Dublin Ireland
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1750

My little engine shows the following line as being available;-

1 Qc6 Nc7

2 Qxc7 b3

3 Qc3#

17th February 2009, 06:27am
#7
by RetGuvvie98
Manassas, VA United States
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 3962

Homer, what if Nb6 instead  of Nc7 ?

17th February 2009, 06:34am
#8
by scottyd333
United States
Member Since: Feb 2008
Member Points: 14

Isn't Re5 checkmate?

17th February 2009, 06:35am
#9
by Nytik
Southampton United Kingdom
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 4718
scottyd333 wrote:

Isn't Re5 checkmate?


Re5 isn't even check. Smile

17th February 2009, 06:37am
#10
by Unknownuser25
United States
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 105

Yeah I get another M3 line as well (with Nb6)


1.Qc6 Nb6 2.Re5 Kxe5 3.Qf6#

17th February 2009, 06:41am
#11
by Evil_Homer
Dublin Ireland
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1750
RetGuvvie98 wrote:

Homer, what if Nb6 instead  of Nc7 ?


 That takes 4 then. Undecided

17th February 2009, 07:32am
#12
by RetGuvvie98
Manassas, VA United States
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 3962

so, my engine wasn't wrong?   cool.  that is a little reassuring.Wink    thanks Homer. you aren't really as evil as they say.  (but then, what do "THEY" know anyway ?)

17th February 2009, 07:51am
#13
by Evil_Homer
Dublin Ireland
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1750
RetGuvvie98 wrote:

so, my engine wasn't wrong?   cool.  that is a little reassuring.    thanks Homer. you aren't really as evil as they say.  (but then, what do "THEY" know anyway ?)


You're absolutely right there, bunch of know nothing know it alls! Laughing

An alternative line from my little engine for a look is

1 Nd3 Nb6

2 Qc5+ Kxd3

3 Re3#

As far as I can see it works with 1..... Nc7 too?

17th February 2009, 07:52am
#14
by Probezeit
Stäfa Switzerland
Member Since: Dec 2007
Member Points: 34

4. +- (#4): 1.Qc1 Nc7 2.Qf4+ Kc5 3.Nd3+ Kb5 4.Qxb4#

Isn't correct (there's a faster way to mate if Black chooses Nc7). 1.Qc1 Nc7 allows 2. Qxc7 forcing b4 3. Qc3#

you probably ment the line:

4. +- (#4): 1.Qc1 Nb6 2.Qe3+ Kc4 3.b3+ Kb5 4.Qxb6#

17th February 2009, 07:54am
#15
by Evil_Homer
Dublin Ireland
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1750
Unknownuser25 wrote:

Yeah I get another M3 line as well (with Nb6)


1.Qc6 Nb6 2.Re5 Kxe5 3.Qf6#


 Are you sure you set this up right?

That looks about honours even after that sequence?

17th February 2009, 07:58am
#16
by Evil_Homer
Dublin Ireland
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1750
Probezeit wrote:

4. +- (#4): 1.Qc1 Nc7 2.Qf4+ Kc5 3.Nd3+ Kb5 4.Qxb4#

Isn't correct (there's a faster way to mate if Black chooses Nc7). 1.Qc1 Nc7 allows 2. Qxc7 forcing b4 3. Qc3#

you probably ment the line:

4. +- (#4): 1.Qc1 Nb6 2.Qe3+ Kc4 3.b3+ Kb5 4.Qxb6#


 That looks about right, but is there a forced mate in 3?

17th February 2009, 08:04am
#17
by drmr4vrmr
baguio Philippines
Member Since: Jul 2008
Member Points: 463

you are right. the puzzle is wrong. mate in 2 not 3

17th February 2009, 08:08am
#18
by Evil_Homer
Dublin Ireland
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1750
drmr4vrmr wrote:

you are right. the puzzle is wrong. mate in 2 not 3


 Mate in 2?

What are the moves?

17th February 2009, 08:09am
#19
by RetGuvvie98
Manassas, VA United States
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 3962

yes, there is a forced mate in 3.   memory working now, I saw this one years ago.

my engine is wrong, I will readily admit.

as long as white's queen stays on the c file, black's move are completely forced.

 

Homer has it right.

                 my engine is evil, I believe.  misleading me so badly.

after 1. Qc6

if                  b3  2. Qc3#

if Nb6  2. Re5    Kxe5 3. Qf6#    or     Nc4 3. Qxd5#   

if Nc7  2. Qxc7 b3  3. Qc3#

 

and there you have it, ladies and gentlemen.  Smile

17th February 2009, 08:17am
#20
by Evil_Homer
Dublin Ireland
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 1750
RetGuvvie98 wrote:

yes, there is a forced mate in 3.   memory working now, I saw this one years ago.

my engine is wrong, I will readily admit.

as long as white's queen stays on the c file, black's move are completely forced.

 

Homer has it right.

                 my engine is evil, I believe.  misleading me so badly.

after 1. Qc6

if                  b3  2. Qc3#

if Nb6  2. Re5    Kxe5 3. Qf6#    or     Nc4 3. Qxd5#   

if Nc7  2. Qxc7 b3  3. Qc3#

 

and there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. 


 My engine is just free rather than evil, so not the strongest in the world, but hey, we got there in the end. 

Nice puzzle by the way Smile!

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