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3 fold repetition


  • 10 months ago · Quote · #1

    deci123

    can you please tell me why the 3 fold repetition is not applied on chess.com?

    it's a basic chess rule!

    in some of my blitz games there are opponents who refuse to accept a draw when there are 2 minutes remaining on the clock and just keep playing silly stupid moves to force me into pre-moves and make a pawn promote

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #2

    jac1yn

    You need to use the draw button to claim the draw :) its not automatically declared. 

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #3

    r_k_ting

    The rule is still wrong on chess.com. Just like in both games of Anand-Carlsen so far, the draw can be claimed before the third repetition if the intended move will result in the third repetition.

    On chess.com, you always have to wait until after the position has appeared to claim the draw. This means that pre-moves and conditional moves will rob you of your claim! Some opponents even know of this bug and will use it against you.

    So, OP is right. This basic chess rule has not been applied on chess.com.

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #4

    rooperi

    Yeah, this has come up in the past.

    An obvious (I think) solution would be to hit the draw button first, then enter your move.

    The system should now recognize it as a claim, not an offer.

    But I dont think it works that way

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #5

    kantifields

    what are pre-moves in blitz?  sounds like why i keep losing on time.

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #6

    rav1ndra

    click the draw button

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #7

    ghillan

    Chess.com emulates at best the rule.  The 3 fold repetition must be claimed. Its obvious that if the player repeat the same moves 3 times, both the players and the arbitrer will see them, but the rule apply also if the same position its reashed 3 times in different phase of the game (say on turn 10, 13 and 17). The rule apply, but the players have to reconize the repetition.

    It happened in the past that a game had a 3 fold repetition but was not claimed.

    If I'm not mistaken, there was also a rule (now with computer i dont think it applies any more) that who claim the repetition will have still his clock going on during the ferification. The arbitrer will analize the game and verify if the repetition happened on not. So in case the player was wrong the game must continue (with a lot lett time in his clock), and he might even loss on time if the time was over during the verification.

     

    In conclusion the fact that you have to claim it , make perfectly sense.

     

    EDIT: here a game between GM's where the 3 fold rule was not claimed:

    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1068757

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #8

    Rsava

    Here is the official FIDE rule:

     

     

    9.2

    The game is drawn upon a correct claim by the player having the move, when the same position, for at least the third time (not necessarily by a repetition of moves):

     

    a.

    is about to appear, if he first writes his move on his scoresheet and declares to the arbiter his intention to make this move, or

     

    b.

    has just appeared, and the player claiming the draw has the move.

     

    How does the chess.com website know what move you PLAN to make? You have not written your move down, that does not happen until you make your move.

    I think, given the current limitations of the psychic ability of computers and websites, the Chess.com implementation is the best that can happen.

    Now, once we have self aware computers and websites ......

     

     
  • 10 months ago · Quote · #9

    r_k_ting

    What an inane comment. I hope you are joking. Otherwise, only a chess player could be so literal as to interpret reading "intention to make this move" as needing psychic powers.

    If you scroll up, a simple way has already been suggested by rooperi.

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #10

    Rsava

    Another sarcasm impaired person.

    I'm sorry, I will type slower for you next time .......

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #11

    r_k_ting

    I thought this part of the forum was for site feedback and suggestions, not pointless sarcasm.

    If you have any suggestions regarding this faulty rule, then please feel free to post, otherwise just quit now.

  • 10 months ago · Quote · #12

    Rsava

    Sir! Yes sir!

    I was pointing out the rule. The rule states you have to write your move down BEFORE you can claim a draw by repitition. Apparently you do not know the rules so I was posting it for people like you - to edcuate you.

    How on earth can the website know what you are going to move BEFORE you move (which writes down your move)???

    It is the best implementation we can have until websites and computers become psychic (that is sarcasm again, the part about psychic computers ....). What rooperi suggests would be impossible. As soon as you hit the draw button if THERE IS NO DRAW BY REPITITION, WHICH THERE WOULDN'T BE UNTIL YOU ENTER YOUR MOVE (I typed in big letters so you can understand it), it just sends a draw request to your opponent. So now the website/program needs to somehow know that it is a draw by repitition BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY WRITE DOWN/MAKE THE MOVE (again big letters so you can understand) instead of just an ordinary draw request.

    How about if you quit now.

  • 9 months ago · Quote · #13

    deci123

    staff you may close the thread

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #14

    Hoppy01

    wow lol

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #15

    DavidMertz1

    Unless I'm mistaken, I'm getting this problem right now:

    http://www.chess.com/echess/game?id=87767398&stay=1

    This is the third time the game has had this identical position (after White's moves 30, 32, and 34,) and I clicked Offer Draw right before making my move, so it SHOULD be an immediate draw, but it isn't.  There is a "You have a pending draw offer" notification visible, which shows that I did in fact click the draw button.

    I had previously reported a similar bug in Vote Chess (http://www.chess.com/forum/view/suggestions/vote-chess-draw-claims) but apparently it also happens in normal online games.

    (Note:  Game [unfortunately] still in progress so please no comments on the position until it's over.)

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #16

    elhawk

    Same position three times - without a pawn move:).

  • 5 months ago · Quote · #17

    DavidMertz1

    My game is now drawn by agreement - feel free to make whatever comments you like on it.

  • 4 months ago · Quote · #18

    gedults2dutch

    why is it up to the player to declare a draw? For online chess, shouldn't it be automatic to prevent the situation from being a point of confusion????????

  • 4 months ago · Quote · #19

    LongIslandMark

    gedults2dutch wrote:

    why is it up to the player to declare a draw? For online chess, shouldn't it be automatic to prevent the situation from being a point of confusion????????

    Not declare a draw, but claim a draw. It's the real chess rules. Ypu have the option not to claim it and play on - I'm guessing you would be annoyed if yo saw you had a win but happened to repeat a postion three times, say 10 moves apart, and the server declared a draw.

  • 4 months ago · Quote · #20

    ghillan

    chess.com claim che draw only if the 3 fold repetition are consecutive. If the same position has been reached not consecutivelly, instead to get a draw you "offer" a draw. THe reason is that the site doesn't compare all the positions reached during the game, just the last 3 ( mi guess, beacuse in case of consecutive repetition it works).

    This is absolutelly wrong. Its a development issue that breacks the chess rules and should be fixed.

    I pointed the same thing in another post:  draw proposal needs to be improved

    With a detailed example of one of my match where we repeated the same position 4 times and still my opponent refused my  draw "offer" (WTF!?!?!)



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