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Vacation Protection Unfair


  • 4 years ago · Quote · #1

    ChubblyWarner

    I think this vacation protection is unfair. I am a premium member and when I go away I put myself on vacation after making all my moves, as you can't do it until you have. (Edit to say that I don't have to make all my moves as a premium member. This was pointed out to me by a member of chess.com staff)

    If you're about to lose on time I think that is your fault and you haven't managed your time well. I do understand that mitigating situations do happen when the user may not have any choice but I'm sure that doesn't happen often.

    I think if you are going to keep the auto vacation protection on there should be a penalty to it. Maybe taking twice the amount of vacation once this has happened or not allowing the same allocation of time, so maybe a day or two protection instead of it coming from your main vacation pool.

    I am in a tournament with a player that is hitting his vacation protection almost every other day, which is really bad when you consider that today when I logged in he was online, seemed to make no moves, logged off and then one of his games triggered the vacation protection! And to make matters worse he has 1 month of vacation time. I think that is really unfair. Perhaps the vacation protection can be taken away from users like that or at least check their logging in habits and warn them about it.

    What I find funny is that when you do go through putting yourself on vacation it comes up with a message telling you it must be a geniune vacation, etc. Vacation protection seems to go against what the vacation time is sold as on that message.

    Rant over.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #2

    smileative

    I'm sure that some people abuse their priveleges, but for some of us who have daily connection and power problems the 'vacation protection' is a godsend - I've lost two games in a 'no vacation' tournament on time-outs, not because I didn't want to move or had managed my time badly, but simply because I was unable to get on the net. Embarassed We doesn't all live in a world where everythin' work perfectly all the time Smile

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #3

    ChubblyWarner

    smileative wrote:

    I'm sure that some people abuse their priveleges, but for some of us who have daily connection and power problems the 'vacation protection' is a godsend - I've lost two games in a 'no vacation' tournament on time-outs, not because I didn't want to move or had managed my time badly, but simply because I was unable to get on the net. We doesn't all live in a world where everythin' work perfectly all the time


    Yes I do understand that some people really do have mitigating circumstances, so perhaps the idea of a seperate protection time would be better. It just is really frustrating to see someone come online and then not make any moves and then hit their protection.

    Thanks for your input.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #4

    smileative

    I should have added that I do understand your frustration though; I have had opponents do exactly as you describe, an' it is bloody annoyin' to see 'em come on an' still maintain their 'vacation' status - only consolation is that they is normally in a lost position anyways an' are only delayin' the inevitable Smile

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #5

    jerry2468

    what about a winning position for your opponent? Would you still consider that rude?

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #6

    CarlMI

    Ahh, the never ending complaint.  My opponent doesn't move when I want him to.  That is the real complaint (in all these threads), disguised as a discussion on vacation. 

    Well my opponents not only don't move when I desire, they often don't move where I wish them to, plus my pieces often can't go where I want them!  The game, the tournaments, the website have rules.  We abide by them. 

    I do not expect my opponents to arrange their lives to fit my idea of how the game should be played.  Yes, I've had players who always use the full time for their move, when they aren't on vacation.  I've won games because players have used their entire vacation and then forfieted on time.  It takes awhile but the result is the same.  If I'm bored I can always start new games.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #7

    philidor_position

    ChubblyWarner wrote:
    smileative wrote:

    I'm sure that some people abuse their priveleges, but for some of us who have daily connection and power problems the 'vacation protection' is a godsend - I've lost two games in a 'no vacation' tournament on time-outs, not because I didn't want to move or had managed my time badly, but simply because I was unable to get on the net. We doesn't all live in a world where everythin' work perfectly all the time


    Yes I do understand that some people really do have mitigating circumstances, so perhaps the idea of a seperate protection time would be better. It just is really frustrating to see someone come online and then not make any moves and then hit their protection.

    Thanks for your input.


    Why? I want to read and hang out in the forums, but I just don't want to make a move, I want to take some time away from chess. Why is that frustrating you? I, and those opponents you're talking about, have no obligation whatsoever to satisfy your chess needs.

    I think people really, really should relax a little. On another thread someone was feeling "insulted" if his opponent didn't provide his/her name on his personal info page. It's like people are just frustrated in general and something random comes in handy to blame. If you're desperate to make some moves, just open other seeks or get into live chess. And mainly, chill out a little. Smile

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #8

    ChubblyWarner

    jerry2468 wrote:

    what about a winning position for your opponent? Would you still consider that rude?


    I never said it was rude, I said I was frustrated. And if it was clearly a lost positition for me I would resign. Although I never said anything about a won or lost position in my post.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #9

    ChubblyWarner

    CarlMI wrote:

    Ahh, the never ending complaint.  My opponent doesn't move when I want him to.  That is the real complaint (in all these threads), disguised as a discussion on vacation. 

    Well my opponents not only don't move when I desire, they often don't move where I wish them to, plus my pieces often can't go where I want them!  The game, the tournaments, the website have rules.  We abide by them. 

    I do not expect my opponents to arrange their lives to fit my idea of how the game should be played.  Yes, I've had players who always use the full time for their move, when they aren't on vacation.  I've won games because players have used their entire vacation and then forfieted on time.  It takes awhile but the result is the same.  If I'm bored I can always start new games.


    I'm not really moaning about vacation time, I use it when I go on vacation. It is the vacation protection that comes on automatically. If you've logged on and can see that you are running out of time, we're talking less than 90 minutes I believe it would be a good idea to move. I have no problems with people setting their status to vacation if they really can't get to the computer and know about it. And I would be thankful of some kind of protection if I ever had circumstance where I needed to use it, but in my case I would make every effort for that not to happen.

    I'd just like to say again, if someone wants to wait 3 days before they make a move and that is the limit then I have no problems. That is the limit and they have every right to do that. The argument I am trying to put across has nothing to do with when I want people to move and them talking the allotted time to do so.

    I do appreciate that the games, the tournaments and the website do have rules, I'm suggesting that perhaps the rules on vacation protection need to be looked at. Hence why I have posted in this forum.

    Thanks for your opinion.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #10

    ChubblyWarner

    philidor_position wrote:
    Why? I want to read and hang out in the forums, but I just don't want to make a move, I want to take some time away from chess. Why is that frustrating you? I, and those opponents you're talking about, have no obligation whatsoever to satisfy your chess needs.

    I think people really, really should relax a little. On another thread someone was feeling "insulted" if his opponent didn't provide his/her name on his personal info page. It's like people are just frustrated in general and something random comes in handy to blame. If you're desperate to make some moves, just open other seeks or get into live chess. And mainly, chill out a little.


    I agree with you on so many points about just wanting to surf the site, watch videos etc. I have done this too while still needing to make moves. Maybe for a couple of days. However, I have never been online with 90 minutes or less in a game and decided to surf the site waiting for my vacation protection to kick in. You're online, you have a time limit on games that you have agreed to by playing that game, make a move. I don't think that is too much to ask.

    I generally am a chilled out guy, and I do love this site. This is the only real gripe I have, hence the post.

    Thanks for your input.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #11

    xqsme

    To join this debate ( again) I would like to say that players should make every effort  to play within their mutually agreed time limits  ... there is no agreement implied or given that one player can extend his limit purely on whim or from lack of purpose while the other has an automatic penalty applied. That much is surely unarguable. Accident prevention is not entirely unreasonable. After all one could ask  family/friend to look out for it for you  if in difficulties, but to constantly or deliberately neglect to move is wrong and should be penalised in some way. TRY HAVING AS MANY ACCIDENTS AS YOU FEEL LIKE WITH YOU HOUSE/HEALTH/CAR INSURANCE AND WATCH WHAT HAPPENS.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #12

    ChubblyWarner

    Just noticed my post has been moved to premium members instead of suggestions and feedback. Not sure why this is as it is feedback and has a suggestion in regarding making vacation and vacation protection separate.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #13

    ChubblyWarner

    Thanks xqsme,

    That is really what I am getting at

    Sorry if this is a boring 'old' topic for some, most of the vacation arguments I looked at were from people putting themselves on vacation in lost positions and I hoped my feedback was different from what had gone before. I apologise if this is not the case

    Thanks for your feedback

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #14

    Martin_Stahl

    ChubblyWarner wrote:

    Just noticed my post has been moved to premium members instead of suggestions and feedback. Not sure why this is as it is feedback and has a suggestion in regarding making vacation and vacation protection separate.


    I would imagine it was put here because changing the system would impact premium members the most; i.e. taking away a feature that was part of what was purchased.

    I kind of like the option, though I don't know if I would ever use it. I have seen some discussions where people have a lot of ongoing games and it is very hard to make all their moves and go on vacation prior to new moves being made in some of their games.

    I also like that this will kick in if I use a lot of my time thinking about what I want to do and work (or sickness or some other emergency) pulls me away when I'm close on on time.

    It can be frustrating, though I have only really had it happen once so far. The player went on vacation (not auto time out protection), ran out of vacation time, didn't come on for the 14 days for the move, went on time out protection (had gained a day in the month he was gone), and finally time out. Not a huge deal but a bit frustrating.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #15

    ChubblyWarner

    Thanks for your input Martin.

    As stated before it is good to have the vacation time and good to have some protection if something did happen where I couldn't get to a game. I really do understand the need for that. It just feels frustrating when the same person hits the protection every other day.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #16

    TheGrobe

    I don't think that using an automated tool to turn on your vacation in and of itself is inherently unfair, but I do agree that the ability to have your vacation turned on while it is still your move in some games is.

    Imagine, if you will, a non-premium member with 200 games on the go against very active opponents, some of who might even have long conditional lines set up.  Imagine the difficulty clearing all of your games by making moves in all of them when your opponents continually respond (including with conditionals) before you can clear the rest of your games.

    I don't think that a punitive pace of vacation consumption should be implemented, nor do I think that the automated feature should be removed altogether, rather I think that the restriction on turning your vacation on when you still have moves to make should be eliminated for everyone regardless of whether they are premium or not.  Doing this relegates the timeout protection to precisely what it should be: automation of something everyone has the ability to do manually for the sake of convenience as opposed to advantage.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #17

    TheGrobe

    It's not about abuse, it's about an inherent inequity between premium and non-premium members with respect to the way (and more importantly, when) vacation time can be initiated.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #18

    tournamentguy

    my vacation kicks in almost daily. if you play 200 games, and you go to sleep with 12 hours left on a game thinking you will have plenty of time in the morning and you sleep in, often you are just on vacation when you check next! I live on this site praying i make it to the first and the 15th! vacation time is the most precious comodity! My fiance goes to school semi far away, and she visits me each week and when she is here, I dare not make the mistake of playing when she is around! that means I can only move when she is either showering or not awake, and my games dont usually work out to be nicely timed for when she sleeps! this leads me to my strongest feeling. one day per move games will ruin you :( just sleeping in will burn vacation time. is thhhhe suckkkkk

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #19

    ChubblyWarner

    To be honest, TheGrobe and Schachgeek, it is more to do with my frustration at people being online, not making any moves, going offline and then having the automatic protection kick in knowing that they have moves to make on a game that is short of time.

    However I have found that there are other arguments to be made when this topic comes up and of course you are free to add them to this thread.

    I wasn't aware of the differences between premium and non-premium members and was corrected by a member of staff in my first post in this thread. I am a fully paid member so I do get the 'perks'.

    Schachgeek again as stated above in a post in this thread:

    "Sorry if this is a boring 'old' topic for some, most of the vacation arguments I looked at were from people putting themselves on vacation in lost positions and I hoped my feedback was different from what had gone before. I apologise if this is not the case"

    Both, thanks for your feedback.

  • 4 years ago · Quote · #20

    TheGrobe

    In your case, perhaps better management of your game load would be a more ideal solution -- both for you and your opponents' sake.


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