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Hi, Jay. I think it would be a good idea [for all game types here, in fact] to include the provision for all draw offers to be clearly indicated within the 'moves box', especially for tournament-type games. I believe if I'm correct, standard OTB-type chess does not allow for a [subsequent] draw offer to be proposed by a player if their opponent has not previously offered one themselves.
It is not only somewhat annoying [and very unsportsmanlike, to say the least] to the player (especially if one's opponent requesting successive draw offers is in a clearly lost position) receiving these draw offers, but there does not appear to be any kind of penalty whatsoever [here, on chess.com] to the opponent making such repeated offers.
If an indication of 'offer draw' were present in the 'moves box' beside the corresponding move - and if chess.com implemented some kind of [say, computer-generated] TD within these tourneys [penalizing players who abuse draw offers], as well - I believe most players would think twice about when exactly they should offer a draw within these tourneys.
There is some merit to this.
Speaking as a TD for OTB tournaments, I will go after idiots (usually turn out to be kids) who make repeated draw offers to distract or just plain disrespect the opponent, especially if they are clearly lost. 1 verbal warning and then I start docking time off their clock.
I believe there is no actual rule prohibiting consecutive draw offers from the same player (as long as they are some time apart); it is merely considered a matter of etiquette not to do so. However, there is a rule stating that repeated draw offers in a short period with obvious intent to harass the opponent is an offence, and can be punished.
The repeated draw offers can also be covered by the rule that forbids a player to distract/disturb their opponent and repeated draw offers, especially when the one offering is losing would be classified as a disturbance.
At my club you can only offer a draw for three times. Nobody ever violates that so I don't have any good ideas on penalties. However, that should be necessary if it was to be implemented in any online chess. A better option would be to disable the option to offer a draw after three draw offers. This avoids penalties (it's a gentleman's game!).
I don't think a notation adds anything. Just a counter under-the-hood should be enough. For OTB the players would have to count it themselfs.
That's the one I was referring to.
On the other hand you also have to think about how annoying it is when someone keeps playing when the position is a clear draw, like for example K and R vs. K and R without any pawns. It's also pretty unfair when people keep playing just because they hope to win on time in a 100% drawish position.
I like the suggestion, not for the reason that subsequent draw offers are forbidden (they aren't as has been pointed out) but because the chess rules state that draw offers should be included into notation and i don't see a reason not to do that on chess.com. (http://www.fide.com/FIDE/handbook/LawsOfChess.pdf, article 9.1 b 2)
And that's at least 'half the point' behind the pun of it all.
The mere fact that these tournament-type games (either 'live'- or 'online'-types here) are allowed to run [perhaps rampantly] without any due TD intervention whatsoever, only clearly implies an indication that the players themselves are more apt to bend the rules in such instances.
Currently, that 'TDs' are allowed to create/host, and allegedly 'run' their own 'online/thematic'-type tourneys 'here' is only a red-faced insult and complete joke upon any other real tournament controller governing an 'OTB'-type tourney elsewhere. The least that chess.com could sanction within their 'live'-type tourneys (namely, 'bullet-/blitz'-types), should be the provision for a clearly indicated [perhaps 'flashing/blinking'] 'claim draw' button/box (as is already provided here in 'online'-/tournament-type games) when such gaming instances arise.
Other than that, the situation will only remain undoubtedly unclear, for should any player gaming 'here' - denying, requesting, or otherwise begging for a/their purported 'draw' - will only have to seek 'assistance' for a mouse-click's pressing concern, perhaps until time stands still ...
And that's the way 'I' see it! ...
On the other hand you also have to think about how annoying it is when someone keeps playing when the position is a clear draw, like for example K and R vs. K and R without any pawns. It's also pretty unfair when people keep playing just because they hope to win on time in a 100% drawish position
Then why have a timed game at all?? If your going to start that then you might as well shut the clock off. I never seen more bologna in my life. This would be the ONLY sport I can think of that you would just call it a draw when there is time still left on the clock....... not to metnion the K R vs K R thing doesn't really fit the arguement as you can still c-mate with K R. Maybe K B vs K B or K knight vs K knight but its still a timed contest and I for one play to the end to win........ after all that is the object is it not?? Furthermore, it's not impossible that your opponent won't make a mistake!! That said, I will ALWAYS play to the end.
interesting post,you keep asking me for a draw,you are clearly loosing,just resign and stop wasting time,
You don't seem to understand the 'gist' of the matter in question here, do you? The 'point' is about justifying the debate towards adequacy, or satisfying a call for completeness/soundness towards current chess notation - not about 'pointless' or unrelated gibberish that has no place to do 'here', except perhaps in your own 'inbox'. So if you only want to complain - about nothing, really - go to your nearest 'complaint box', and quit wasting our time 'here' - alright? ...
But if you [should?] have anything intelligibly relevant to say about the above subject, I'd be only willing to place a bet upon over how I might be just a tad surprised - i.e. in consideration of your rather limited scope for legible thought, huh? ...
And until successively asking one's opponent for a draw [in any chess format] is a 'sin', whether 'winning' or losing - and/or during any point of the game's play - I myself will keep on beggin' for it where deemed 'apropos', perhaps until the very essence of 'the question' is finally not only put to test, but [perhaps?] to rest.
It's kind of ironic that "Allogenic Man" has raised this topic for a discussion, since he is in fact one of those juvenile players who participates in this "draw distraction" method while he is continuing to play beyond hopeless positions!
Perhaps you should read and/or be re-directed to what I quoted to mattslim, above 'here' - maybe then you'd get the idea instead of trying to find sympathy from 'him' ... Perhaps he's one of your good 'buddies[?]' here, hmm? ...
I think a better solution might be to implement a "ignore draw offers" checkbox. Let it be unselected at the beginning of each game, and let the player who is ahead (and presumably distracted) check the box if his opponent gets out of hand.
Such notation is not allowed in OTB. However, elsewhere, I use a "Z" to denote when my opponent offered a draw.
Since there is no problem, there needs no solution. Assigning 1/100th of a point from the offeror to the offeree, if accepted, could radicalize tournament strategy dramatically!
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