i posted on the other LGTB group but ill copy paste it here also

well i was stagering over alot of things to sate my thirst for knowledge, at the moment mostly over gays and religions, and i was wonder if there are any of you guys out there, that still go to church, or not even that, just wondering if you still follow religion? if so, what are your reasons? and if not why not? i know there are some prety obvious reasons towards not being religious but i want to know, how the hell did you cope with growing up knowing you might not ever decide to be.

Well, I'm not religious. I actually stopped following religion before I admitted to myself that I was gay, so I never had that specific internal conflict. I made this decision based on my observations that there was not enough evidence to warrant belief in a supernatural being.

I am agnostic.  But I don't believe in religions - at all.  They are like governments, politicians, businesses, etc.  They look out for themselves and work hard to support their historic beliefs even when they are bad or wrong.  I just try to do what is right.  If there is a god, it seems to me that doing the right thing would be more important to he/she/? than following some religious doggeral.  

In a basic sense, I believe that the world makes more sense with a divine creator. I also believe that that God is likely endowed with qualities of all knowingness and all power. But it's tough to see this God as distinctly good, or perhaps its tough to view our spectrum of morality as the divine gauge or morality. Concepts of hell and all of that seem a bit nonsensiscal. 

Anyway, the supposed division between sexuality and religion isn't very interesting to me. If there is a God, then our gayness is part of that all knowingness, and we fit in somehow. Probably to make good music and art and increase property values during a recession, or something like that.

i agree

what do you mean by creator? the creator the bible speaks of, or something else? ive been reading up on alot of pagan religions because aparently is was ok to be gay, and they state that god wasnt a person, but a being or spirit in which everything and anything was created after

I suppose I believe in the creator that you describe, but I also don't feel that most human ideas of divinity (or atheism) are disimilar. Look--it takes an equal leap of faith to believe in God as it does to believe in no God. And when a fellow chess playing homo is looking for answers, all I can say for certain is that both scenarios support his or her being as potential good and worth something.

So, let's hope for the best, and play some good chess. I feel bad about our last team game--i'm ready for some more!

I have a lot of gay Christian friends.

and how is that working out for them?

I've been kinda going to some LGBT youth meet ups and alot of the guys and girls there attend because its like a last resort, ofcourse its confidential, but most of them feel like its a dead end, they come to complain about life and religion, but then they are happy to return, and alot of them being mostly christians and muslims.

how can you really hold on to something that makes you feel miserable, i know i am guilty of that myself, but im getting there.

God (if there is one) would not create people he/she/it did not like.  Forget organized religeons.  Trust your feelings.  Going to church and being relegious are two entirely different things.  Look at history.  Most of the wars of the last thousand years have been caused by religions.  Do you think that is what God wanted?  Don't hold on to what makes you miserable.  Those who make you miserable are just looking out for themselves by trying to be your superior.  Pardon my strong feelings!!!

dw i get what you mean by that also, i was pulled aside a few meetings back because i told a guy to stop feeling sorry for himself and expecting me to feel simpathy for him because religion was a sack of crap, but that will not reverse any of the dogma that has already taken its toll

By religion, do you mean "Christianity?" Or, just religion in general?

Christianity and LGBT. That is so controversial. I simply can not believe that one can claim Christianity and engage in extra-heterosexual intimate relationships. So be it. I do not agree as it seems that the bible is very clear on its views of this behavior. However, being a member of LGBT does not exclude one from this spiritual path, regardless of the naysayers, so long as one follows the rules that demand abstinence outside of heterosexual marriage. There are those who will disagree, so I will not defend or argue my position; only state it.

Outside of that, there are but a few spiritual paths that ban the intimate behavior I am referring to. There are many spiritual paths, but the most invaluable spiritual path you will ever find is that which you believe in your own heart and mind.

Don't give up on this guy quite yet. I grew up in a dogmatic environment and shed it. It no longer has any toll on me. He must find his own way.

The most I can say about religion is that I believe that there is a greater rhythm to the universe. So I do believe in a "higher power"; though I am quite undecided about what this higher power is; but I believe that there are greater spiritual forces at work in our lives.

It's nothing I "cope" with; its something I don't put much thought into, as things like this just kind of work themselves out.

In circumstances like this, quoting the bible is a cop out.

1.  The bible was not written by God, if there is a God.  It was written by people with an agenda.

2.  The bible was not written in English.  There are many interpretations, and changes in interpretations over the years.  It is not clear at all that the bible says homosexuality is bad, or homosexual acts are bad.

3.  Why do christians make such a big deal out of homosexuality?  There are countless things the bible says not to do which people do anyway.  And the bible is much more clear about many of these things.  And yet we often don't see christians ranting about these other "violations" like they do about homsexuality, even though many of these other no-no's are writen about more often and in much more detail in the bible than is homsexuality.  For example, there are even food restrictions.  And of course, the real biggie is adultry.  Some religions follow the food restrictions, but I have never heard anyone ranting about going to hell because of what you eat, and making what you eat a major religious social cause.  So what is the big deal about homosexuality?  Why is it different?

In that case, maybe the dogma has taken its toll on me.

As stated, I won't defend. The ida that a "book" compiled of ancient writings by a group of scholars, where these scholars determined what writings to put in and what writings to take out, doing so under the threat of death under the rulership of King James, becoming the"inspired word of God" is too much for me to swallow, too.

The world would be a very different place of Constantine had never came to power.

I believe we are both pretty well educated on this particular dogma and we could talk for hours, and other than a few details, we'd probably say the same thing.

I've been atheist since thirteen or so, but in my older age I've come to admire the liberal Christians who are open-minded and welcoming of gays. They are not stuck on dogma and do not take a literal reading of Scripture, so do not judge them based on what the religious right says. I encourage other skeptics and atheists to approach and carefully consider liberal congregations.

In the United States, religions are the most effective way to create a socialist unit that cares for and nourishes its members and the community. They are completely tax-free, enjoy widespread social acceptance, have enormous legal and property advantages in every aspect of their business, and wield real political clout, so it is simply foolish not to use them. Gays throughout history have found employment, meaning, and power within the church and within other religions. It is an ancient, even prehistoric alliance and will endure. Shaman is one of the typical professions for a gay person. The biggest difference today at least in the West is that there is a social awareness and identity among gays, and a new openness that is refreshing and a sign of the general improvement in the education and maturity of mankind.

Yes, gays have at times found employment in the church.  Some of the Popes, for example.....

I've just come to accept the fact that I'm gay and was raised in a devoutly catholic household. My internal feelings tell me that there's a God that loves me for who I am and so forth...but as of late' I've come to question whether "god" even exists. Most importantly, for someone to tell me who I can and cannot have a relationship with because of my sexual orientation has also put me into a conflict. I am also employed by a Catholic Church as a music director.

That's a tough spot to be in, my friend.

As a former Christian, I can tell you this: The faith does not condemn the orientation; it condemns the action.

The choice you have is a rough one: Remain celibate or live opposed to your religious beliefs.

I was there at one time in my life, and I have made my choice.

Those, you are questioning right now, and I will make no comment one way or the other about the spiritual path I think you should take.

You have my empathy.

Good fortune to you.

Take a look at Andrew Sullivan and Dan Savage--two openly gay Catholics who are married to their husbands, and who fight for civil gay marriage and general equal rights. It is possible to be Catholic, gay, and in love.

Thank you "Captain Pike" for your sensitive empathy. It is comforting to know that others have walked the same paths of this strenuous journey of life and have kept their sanity. :P mmiller0713 I've never heard of them, but will definitely look the up. Thanks...